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Making TV Useful For My 94-yr-old Aunt
- gerad 3y agoI’ve found that it’s not the setup but the maintenance that’s hard with these sort of solutions for others.
- omeid2 3y agoAnd this where the value of "products" comes in. Something very hard for many techies to see.
- kortilla 3y agoThat doesn’t follow. Any product that auto updates in a way that changes the UI (I.e. nearly every smart TV) is absolute dog shit to support. All hand written notes and knowing what’s going on over the phone go out the window when an update pushes an ad for a TV show they like on some new app.
- hellotheretoday 3y agoThis is the extremely frustrating part of not being able to roll back firmware updates in modern devices. My dad is 78. He knows how to use his tv and cable box. It gets a firmware update that adds some feature that is pointless to him (lets say HDR, he doesn’t give a shit) but refreshes the UI. I feel like 10-20 years ago I could just download the old firmware onto a usb and install it over the new one for stuff like this. That concept is just unheard of now. I sort of get why from a security perspective but if that has to be the case then keep your shitty UI/UX consistent at least. Or find a secure way to allow downgrades. That’s not my expertise at all but I’m sure it can be done
- moffkalast 3y ago10-20 years ago it wouldn't have been a forced automatic update in the first place, because the system wouldn't have had an internet link at all.
- SSLy 3y ago10 years? nah, my shitty satellite set top box already had an ethernet port that you could get software upgrades with. and if not that way, the software still forced upgrade by getting the data from a special passive channel from the satellite.
- moffkalast 3y agoYeah but who in the right mind plugged anything like that in? These days you're forced to provide a wifi link first thing when doing the setup of basically anything. > the software still forced upgrade by getting the data from a special passive channel from the satellite Ok that one I haven't ever heard of, sounds unwieldy.
- joseda-hg 3y ago2013? DirecTV 100% had self updating receivers by that point, I tried to figure out which ones were the first to get those, but they're not big on being open with info The manual for the first receiver I remember being able to update itself says 2006, but I can't check if that's right Edit: I did some digging around, DirecTV's RCA Receivers + Ultimate mention being able to update, and apparently those are from the early 2000's The manuals are something else, in the internet capable models there are sections on using your TV as an Email client or making your own website
- SSLy 3y ago> These days you're forced to provide a wifi link first thing when doing the setup of basically anything. IDK, my new canal+ box seems to work fine with no internet connection. It gets the software and DRM updates the same way, simplex broadcast received from satellite
- 3y ago
- joseda-hg 3y agoI absolutely loved Chromecasts for this (At least the non 4K ones), there was basically no real GUI after it's setup, everything was on the phone, usually in the same place for every app and it responded to at least some of the TV remote inputs My mom loved it too
- OldGuyInTheClub 3y agoI admire the fortitude of the author's aunt for being able to live alone at the age of 94.
- Double_a_92 3y agoIn my experience with my elderly parents this absolutely won't work. If anything it's more complex since different things, are now hidden in one magic box. She probably won't understand that e.g. Netflix and Hulu are different things. Or how to navigate back if some app gets stuck somewhere.... Also at some point there will be an update of some part of this that breaks everything.
- drewcoo 3y agoThis. This resonates with me helping family members use technology. IMHO, the problem is that our ideas of discoverability and even our notions of UI from Xerox Parc are based on models for children and not on models for the elderly. People with life experiences typically want things that behave like what they know. I hope the way we design software changes as the population ages.
- shiroiuma 3y ago>I hope the way we design software changes as the population ages. I'd be happy if we could just figure out how to make software reliable and performant again. Most of it is a horror-show, and only looks any good at all because computers are so fast and many of the underlying tools and infrastructure parts have gotten really good (i.e., server hardware is ridiculously fast, the Linux OS running on most servers is supremely reliable for such a complex system that needs to support a myriad array of hardware from different vendors, but the CRUD software written to run on top of this stack is hacked-together garbage.)
- Thlom 3y agoMy mother in law has an apple TV. Most of the time it just works, but sometimes Netflix or whatever just decides to log out and then I have to help her log back in. Another day an app froze and had to be force closed. She doesn't understand that the Apple TV is the box under her TV or that the apps are computer programs. It's just the TV for her. So after several hours of no TV she told me the TV didn't work. I came, hold the menu button for 3 seconds and then it worked again. Short story: When it works it's no problem. She can navigate between netflix and other streaming services, but once something freeze or she has to log in or whatever she is lost. My dad is a little bit better, but he has problems understanding accounts and logins. Using your e-mail address as username is actually confusing for older folks.
- Lerain 3y agoI love this. Yes, as mentioned by others, maintenance might be an issue, but that should not be the reason to abandon the whole effort of connecting elderly people to async TV and simple home automation. I am sure there are more than enough children or relatives that are happy to assist with these maintenance tasks. The author seems to have done similar projects for a lot of his peers and it seems to work for them. And... it's also a great reminder of how challanging it is for elderly folks (AND ourselves in the future!) to deal with the horror of multiple remotes and tech they don't understand. In the "Why Use this Website?" section on the frontpage of his site, it reads: "Get help developing products and services that older adults actually want and need." I applaud the mission and the effort to document all of it in a guide-like fashion. Great job!
- happymellon 3y ago> And... it's also a great reminder of how challanging it is for elderly folks (AND ourselves in the future!) to deal with the horror of multiple remotes and tech they don't understand. Not just elderly. I hate multiple remotes, my wife hates multiple remotes, the kids hate multiple remotes. Multiple remotes means that your product doesn't play nice with others, and that should be a huge red flag for the future when we have plenty of tech that lets us use a single remote.
- paganel 3y agoSomething irks me the wrong way about mindsets like the one that the author of the article has, it's like they're refusing agency and independence to their older relatives. What's wrong with they want to have soap-operas running in the background all the time? Why do these younger people feel the need to change that to "background nature shows from YT"? (and in so doing helping out a trillion-dollars behemoth).
- tremon 3y agoAren't soap opera's produced by their own trillion-dollar behemoths?
- dryanau 3y agoI think the poster's point is that it really should be the person's own choice what they watch. The moralising around what gets chosen is tangential.
- looping8 3y agoI would agree. Not sure why 8 hours of shots of Iceland with no narration is better than a TV show in daytime? Not all of it is trash, maybe they are showing classic movies. Even if it is some soap opera, at least the aunt will feel engaged with people, even if those people are characters on TV. Living alone at that age must be lonely, let her have her joys.
- joseda-hg 3y agoI've lived with an elderly that only watches variations of CSI in TV, as long as it keeps her entertained she gets to pick* *It's still up for debate if those shows or the news are worse for making her a bit paranoid, you'd think it'd be more clear cut, but she only brings up stuff on the news, if it goes too far we will have to make some changes
- BHSPitMonkey 3y ago> Why do these younger people feel the need Yes, curse these hip, fresh-faced, (checks author's bio) 76-year-old whippersnappers for thinking they know better than the elderly!
- hasoleju 3y agoI like that the author augmented a familiar product instead of adding additional gadgets. I already notice a lot of difficulties to learn how to use new technologies with much younger relatives than his aunt. I think practice in learning new things and intrinsic motivation to do so is key. Starting early to build this learning routine with older relatives is something I'm trying to do.
- esskay 3y agoI tried something similar for my elderly grandmother who's suffering with dementia. TV's the only thing that gives her joy these days but she struggles. I wanted something like reminders and information to show on the screen next to the TV program and used a HDMI capture card along with a Raspberry Pi to essentially add an overlay to the screen but it was too finicky and the pi would often lock up (its nowhere near powerful enough). Ideally it needs a passthrough system that can resize the source input down a bit to fit a scrolling banner at the bottom and a sidebar that family members can remotely push messages to, or have scheduled reminders with a voice over. Common things we found needed reminders were things like remembering to drink, a reminder of someone coming round, reminders to go to bed, shower, clean your teeth, etc. I dont think anything interactive would be a good idea in this situation. The worst thing you can do with dementia patients is introduce something new to learn so it would need to be as frictionless as possible.
- autoexec 3y ago> The worst thing you can do with dementia patients is introduce something new to learn I'd guess that it really depends on the person. This makes me hopeful https://newatlas.com/health-wellbeing/people-with-dementia-can-learn-new-things/ https://newatlas.com/health-wellbeing/people-with-dementia-c...
- doesnotexist 3y agoThis is adjacent to a project I'm currently working on that makes TV more useful for grandparents and elderly parents. It's a shame that in an era when you can't buy a non-smart TV, the market hasn't delivered much in terms of accessibility features for people who struggle navigating menus and apps. If this sounds like something you want then please register your interest on this form. https://form.jotform.com/232982350527156 https://form.jotform.com/232982350527156
- doesnotexist 3y agoEdit: Please sign-up using this url. I would have posted this before but we had a SSL termination issue. https://www.stayspry.tv/ https://www.stayspry.tv/
- velo_aprx 3y agoMy parents are 20 years younger than this aunt and if I introduced these types of changes to make it "easier" for them, I would have to help them out even more. My mother would have even bigger technophobic breakdowns because of her not understanding how things work. And if anything, she would love to revert back to 1980s technology that is straight forward instead of having to learn some high-tech magic voice assistant of teh phuture to change the channel. I say, keep it simple, keep it familiar. I am 100% sure this will backfire.
- bryanrasmussen 3y ago1. it sounds like his aunt has a very complicated setup already, he simplified the setup. 2. 20 years younger than 94 might have significantly less medical issues - to quote the article "The problem was that she has difficulty walking, and when she is sitting in her lazy boy chair, it’s tough to get up and walk to the phone to see who is calling. She gets a lot of spam calls. She also plays the TV loud and may not hear the phone ring." etc. etc.
- sebstefan 3y agoI'm not sure. I routinely have to help mine understand that one remote is for the TV and the other for the cable box. TV now just being a display for a video input is enough Having one remote is big Being able to ask Alexa to find the remote is also big, because I swear my grandmother loses that thing every week
- beAbU 3y agoI agree. I have similar aged parents. I advised my dad to get one of those Android TV boxes, and I can't be happier. I spent an afternoon setting it up, getting all their streaming apps in the right place, and the number of TV related tech support calls went down to 0. One remote that controls everything, it has like 5 buttons on it, and one of them is a netflix button. Fantastic. And now my dad feels like a tech wizz whenever he casts a photo/video from his phone to the tv when he wants to show his friends something. This article's solution feels very brittle and cumbersome, which will probably increase the tech support calls.
- Yizahi 3y ago
- junaru 3y agoAs people grow older they want less complexity not more, doubtful the aunt appreciates it as much as the op. For everyone else looking to consolidate a settop box and tv to a no bullshit remote highly recommend https://www.oneforall.com/universal-remotes/urc-6820-zapper#/step-1 https://www.oneforall.com/universal-remotes/urc-6820-zapper#... Gone are all the superfluous netflix or change input buttons that make your parents stuck and generate support calls. You configure the remote for tv and when thats done you (optionaly) configure it for the settop box. At that point only the dedicated TV power button goes to tv all other keys go directly to the settop box and theres very few of them with comfortable size and best rubber quality i've seen in a remote ever. The settopbox/tv compatibility list is not published online but spans decades and i had no problem setting up a noname one that wasn't even on the list.
- tyingq 3y agoThe higher end Roku devices include a unified remote that works for the Roku and the TV and simplifies things well. If you're able to work with a setup where everything comes through the Roku, I can see it being a decent setup for an older person that doesn't want to fool with technology. Includes things like a remote finder button on top of the Roku that works pretty well.
- ale42 3y agoDoes this has Bluetooth support? It would be wonderful. Some boxes (eg. the Mi Android TV stick from Xiaomi) use Bluetooth for the remote instead of infrared... and come with stripped-down remotes that many elderly people feel more difficult to use than regular TV remotes.
- junaru 3y agoNo, at least this model doesn't, not sure if they make anything like that.
- dr_dshiv 3y agoIsn’t it weird there isn’t a hardware company that has a brand promise of “ease of use” vs “features”? There has to be a reasonably sized market share that prefers ease over advancements.
- expertentipp 3y ago> Too Many Remotes Two remotes was the moment I stopped watching TV altogether at third of her age. Am I pointing the right device? Is the battery in any of them out? Is the bloody device not reacting of just waking up? The cable box is connected to the TV aux or it's a "smart" one connected to one of the HDMI aux'es? All this mess to watch mostly ads.
- duckmysick 3y agoFully agree. Why is this even a thing? A tv remote can toggle power on/off, change the volume, has up/down/left/right/enter/back/play/pause/numerical keys. Why can't I use the tv remote to operate other devices connected to the TV? Actually scratch that - why can't I use the power button on the TV remote to power other devices? Instead, I have to use different remotes. I can't imagine a scenario where I want to operate my DVD player while my TV is off. That's where the smart TVs missed the mark. When I press mute on my TV remote, it should be smart enough to figure out how to talk to other devices to mute everything.
- MintsJohn 3y agoWell, this just goes to show not all elderly are the same. My relatives would love more remotes and hate more strange non physical interfaces. Controlling lights with voice commands vs a (eventually on a remote) button, button wins 100% of the time. The biggest hurdle seems to be discoverability. A physical remote makes sense, and doesn't change. Buttons have a singular function and context doesn't matter. Apps are different beasts, navigate up/down/forward/backward (thus context (what did you do before, now doing x does y, but otherwise z)) is just met with glazy eyes. Going back and front just makes no sense, why sometimes you need to go to a menu and other times it's a shortcut button, makes no sense, especially when summoning the menu needs special navigation. To add insult to injury, every now and then apps get an overhaul, and suddenly navigation and buttons changed/looked different. Now when i say apps, i do mean apps on phones/tvs. The windows UI works for them because the basics are the same for all programs, using word or outlook, menu items have text like "send" "save" and while it takes time, functionality is discoverable. But for tv apps the logic is "click up or down until the icon you want has a different hue, then press a button on the remote to do stuff, but only when the screen shows x,not when it shows z". It's too much functionality condensed in too little UI. I'm constantly baffled by design choices for apps that are supposed to be used by everyone, I'm sure it looks nice to designers and devs, but have they even tried showing their brand new TV interface (these are the worst offenders) to an elderly and gave them simple tasks?
- Nouser76 3y agoIn my experience, modern entertainment takes too much cognitive load to get up and running. With streaming/on demand, I have to make pointed decisions on what show I'm watching. I don't always want to make a decision right now of what to watch, I just want to watch something that's good enough or fits a certain theme. TV Channel creation programs, like DizqueTV[0] or ErsatzTV[1] have taken the load off, or at least lets me do that cognitive work in advance when making the channels. You still need some way to get input to swap between these digital channels (I use Plex to surface my shows and schedule), but if you have existing local content it really feels like the "old" way of doing TV. You can even add commercials between episodes if you wanted! I'm not sure if I'd call this foolproof for a 94-year-old, especially since sometimes the software needs to restart, but it's a step above modern streaming IMO. [0] https://github.com/vexorian/dizquetv https://github.com/vexorian/dizquetv [1] https://github.com/ErsatzTV/ErsatzTV https://github.com/ErsatzTV/ErsatzTV
- butlike 3y agoWhy, oh why, is there not a "I'm feeling lucky" button on streaming. Just show me something I haven't seen yet with one click.