5 ms·

I think AMD is the most likely to win this race as they are way more reasonable than Nvidia and Qualcomm in terms of margins and better at working with the vend

I think AMD is the most likely to win this race as they are way more reasonable than Nvidia and Qualcomm in terms of margins and better at working with the vendors.

brucethemoose2 3y ago
That is a reasonable assessment. Nvidia and Qualcomm are just so... Nvidia and Qualcomm like. They can't help themselves. That being said, history also suggests AMD will bungle the software side.
- photonbeam 3y ago
  I’ve always been baffled by this, why hasn’t AMD brought in an army of software devs
  - sfmike 3y ago
    They have and thats the problem
  - mtoner23 3y ago
    So much easier said than done. Have you met those kernel/SW people? They are hard to poach and hard to manage well.
    - gleenn 3y ago
      Pay them more money maybe?
      - sherincall 3y ago
        Because of stock appreciation, they'd need to pay up to 10x what the other company is already paying. Consider a senior SWE at e.g. NVIDIA making $300k, let's say halfsies split between base and RSU. The $150k RSU grant from a few years ago that still hasn't fully vested is worth $1M now. So even for a 50% increase in nominal total comp, it doesn't make financial sense to switch. I don't know that anyone can afford to pay their engineers 10x more than the competition, and then also offer a cheaper product with thinner margins.
        HWR_14 3y ago
        What percentage of the cost is the engineering?
    - freeone3000 3y ago
      Yeah, I have — and I got the impression that stability and long-term goals are paramount. You need a good manager, but who doesn’t?
    - anonzzzies 3y ago
      I did kernel dev and drivers for over a decade on embedded systems; people in the space are not easy to find, especially with experience. Because of that it is not hard to make 400-500k/year working remotely from my garden in the eu (and have been for the past 20 years). Why would I move and go to an office for similar of less? I would accept a position at Nvidia if the conditions are similar and I know my colleagues (who also have been working from home for most of their careers) would but that’s not on offer.
      - nvm0n2 3y ago
        Where are you making 400-500k a year doing systems programming? Embedded or kernel dev usually doesn't pay so great.
        spoiler 3y ago
        I wish to know the same... I've been doing it as a hoby for years, but now I'm having financial FOMO lol
        bradfa 3y ago
        Having professionally been doing embedded/kernel/systems development since 2011 and a variety of software and hardware engineering before that, I'd say embedded software pays decently, but I'm definitely not making $400-500k USD/year, not even half that. Maybe I'm doing it wrong? In my experience, pretty much all software engineering positions pay better than hardware engineering positions with equivalent experience. I don't fully understand why, as hardware is hard and if you have a really good hardware engineering team you can shave months off your time to market, so those engineers should be just as valuable to a business as systems/embedded software people.
        Roark66 3y ago
        I've found it mostly true during my 20+ years career in IT (mostly devops, but also "solution architecture", cloud migration of legacy software, and even integration early on, etc) that if one wants to make more money there is almost always an opportunity to do so if one is willing to work hard and take risks for it. Switching jobs every 2~3 years and doing it with a plan in mind is one way of doing it. Based on that people end up earning what they consider "a comfortable wage". Some people are not going to feel comfortable until they can buy a jet for their acro-flying hobby, some are happy when they can afford to easily save 1 year of income and being able to afford to buy a new pc every 3 years. Other people have no idea these opportunities exist and they are miserable working in one place for a decade. Or they are not willing or can't take risks. That's how we end up with two people doing similar jobs one earning $100k and the other $500k. In days of remote work the biggest differentiating factor in the earning potential IMO is your English (if not a native speaker) and willingness to work in timezones 6h+ away.
  - gofixurcode 3y ago
    Issues like this typically boil down to management. If they had a driven forward thinking manager who could deliver value early and impress their superiors, then they could have leverage to make change in the organization and push for more devs, a change in philosophy or push for more resources for the software arm. These things take time though of course.
  - AtlasBarfed 3y ago
    Hardware never does software well because software is more expensive on a per person basis. That disrupts the organization because the hardware people are arguably smarter and more talented than software people. They have actual engineering degrees. A good software org has to value its people. A good hardware org is a manufacturing operation tries to minimize personnel costs.
- MikusR 3y ago
  And AMD is so AMD.
dehrmann 3y ago
Plus their product is an almost one-to-one replacement for Intel's. There's no question of if X will work, and you don't need to port anything before doing performance tests.
baybal2 3y ago
[dead]
conradev 3y ago
Qualcomm already ships SoCs for Surfaces, Chromebooks and Galaxy Books. Those chips lag in performance, and I’m curious how much of them catching up will just be “updating to the latest ARM IP” NVIDIA also shipped Tegra SoCs with their own Denver cores, but they scrapped the project
jwells89 3y ago
If AMD makes the Linux versions of the various software surrounding their ARM CPU open source, it'll likely win by default. Even if Nvidia's and Qualcomm's offerings perform a bit better, nobody wants to put up with those two's nonsense if they don't have to.
- orwin 3y ago
  Yes. The only reason I'm on intel on my main (general purpose) computer is that I want reliable software that will just work on a clean install, without having to modprobe or modify the grub. AMD is cheaper (less power too for the same performances), so for my NAS and laptop it's my choice, and probably if I had to build a gaming computer I would use AMD too.
throwaway914 3y ago
It pisses me off that AMD does either low/cheap laptops or extremely gaudy gaming machines. There's this high performance ultrabook niche that I wish they could make inroads to. It is impossible to find: AMD + high resolution screen (3840x2400) + 120hz + OLED. In the last year even the Intel ones downgraded though, everyone went 3200x2000 @ 120hz OLED. It's just frustrating when you're looking at upper-end AMD laptops and you cannot find 16GB of memory, or a decent screen. I'm glad they can dish out $500-$800 laptops, but I don't know why OEMs are always pairing the good components with Intel.
- fodkodrasz 3y ago
  It must be a coincidence.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel#Allegations_by_the_European_Union_(2007–2008) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel#Allegations_by_the_Europ...
  - baybal2 3y ago
    [dead]
- pizza234 3y ago
  > It's just frustrating when you're looking at upper-end AMD laptops and you cannot find 16GB of memory, or a decent screen. This is not correct. Just looking at Lenovo (and surely, there are similar machines from other brands), even a mainstream laptop like the Yoga 7 14" AMD ships 16 GB, and it has a 2.8K OLED display as option. If you want more, the T14(s) can ship with 32 GB and matte display.
  - grujicd 3y ago
    Also check Asus Zebook line, they have models with AMD CPU, OLED hidpi displays and 16GB/1TB.
  - throwaway914 3y ago
    You are right, but 2.8k is them again gimping AMD. We should be expecting 2160p minimum.

I think AMD is the most likely to win this race as they are way more reasonable than Nvidia and Qualcomm in terms of margins and better at working with the vendors.

brucethemoose2 3y ago

That is a reasonable assessment. Nvidia and Qualcomm are just so... Nvidia and Qualcomm like. They can't help themselves. That being said, history also suggests AMD will bungle the software side.

photonbeam 3y ago
I’ve always been baffled by this, why hasn’t AMD brought in an army of software devs
- sfmike 3y ago
  They have and thats the problem
- mtoner23 3y ago
  So much easier said than done. Have you met those kernel/SW people? They are hard to poach and hard to manage well.
  - gleenn 3y ago
    Pay them more money maybe?
    - sherincall 3y ago
      Because of stock appreciation, they'd need to pay up to 10x what the other company is already paying. Consider a senior SWE at e.g. NVIDIA making $300k, let's say halfsies split between base and RSU. The $150k RSU grant from a few years ago that still hasn't fully vested is worth $1M now. So even for a 50% increase in nominal total comp, it doesn't make financial sense to switch. I don't know that anyone can afford to pay their engineers 10x more than the competition, and then also offer a cheaper product with thinner margins.
      - HWR_14 3y ago
        What percentage of the cost is the engineering?
  - freeone3000 3y ago
    Yeah, I have — and I got the impression that stability and long-term goals are paramount. You need a good manager, but who doesn’t?
  - anonzzzies 3y ago
    I did kernel dev and drivers for over a decade on embedded systems; people in the space are not easy to find, especially with experience. Because of that it is not hard to make 400-500k/year working remotely from my garden in the eu (and have been for the past 20 years). Why would I move and go to an office for similar of less? I would accept a position at Nvidia if the conditions are similar and I know my colleagues (who also have been working from home for most of their careers) would but that’s not on offer.
    - nvm0n2 3y ago
      Where are you making 400-500k a year doing systems programming? Embedded or kernel dev usually doesn't pay so great.
      - spoiler 3y ago
        I wish to know the same... I've been doing it as a hoby for years, but now I'm having financial FOMO lol
      - bradfa 3y ago
        Having professionally been doing embedded/kernel/systems development since 2011 and a variety of software and hardware engineering before that, I'd say embedded software pays decently, but I'm definitely not making $400-500k USD/year, not even half that. Maybe I'm doing it wrong? In my experience, pretty much all software engineering positions pay better than hardware engineering positions with equivalent experience. I don't fully understand why, as hardware is hard and if you have a really good hardware engineering team you can shave months off your time to market, so those engineers should be just as valuable to a business as systems/embedded software people.
        Roark66 3y ago
        I've found it mostly true during my 20+ years career in IT (mostly devops, but also "solution architecture", cloud migration of legacy software, and even integration early on, etc) that if one wants to make more money there is almost always an opportunity to do so if one is willing to work hard and take risks for it. Switching jobs every 2~3 years and doing it with a plan in mind is one way of doing it. Based on that people end up earning what they consider "a comfortable wage". Some people are not going to feel comfortable until they can buy a jet for their acro-flying hobby, some are happy when they can afford to easily save 1 year of income and being able to afford to buy a new pc every 3 years. Other people have no idea these opportunities exist and they are miserable working in one place for a decade. Or they are not willing or can't take risks. That's how we end up with two people doing similar jobs one earning $100k and the other $500k. In days of remote work the biggest differentiating factor in the earning potential IMO is your English (if not a native speaker) and willingness to work in timezones 6h+ away.
- gofixurcode 3y ago
  Issues like this typically boil down to management. If they had a driven forward thinking manager who could deliver value early and impress their superiors, then they could have leverage to make change in the organization and push for more devs, a change in philosophy or push for more resources for the software arm. These things take time though of course.
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  Hardware never does software well because software is more expensive on a per person basis. That disrupts the organization because the hardware people are arguably smarter and more talented than software people. They have actual engineering degrees. A good software org has to value its people. A good hardware org is a manufacturing operation tries to minimize personnel costs.
MikusR 3y ago
And AMD is so AMD.

dehrmann 3y ago

Plus their product is an almost one-to-one replacement for Intel's. There's no question of if X will work, and you don't need to port anything before doing performance tests.

baybal2 3y ago

[dead]

conradev 3y ago

Qualcomm already ships SoCs for Surfaces, Chromebooks and Galaxy Books. Those chips lag in performance, and I’m curious how much of them catching up will just be “updating to the latest ARM IP” NVIDIA also shipped Tegra SoCs with their own Denver cores, but they scrapped the project

jwells89 3y ago

If AMD makes the Linux versions of the various software surrounding their ARM CPU open source, it'll likely win by default. Even if Nvidia's and Qualcomm's offerings perform a bit better, nobody wants to put up with those two's nonsense if they don't have to.

orwin 3y ago
Yes. The only reason I'm on intel on my main (general purpose) computer is that I want reliable software that will just work on a clean install, without having to modprobe or modify the grub. AMD is cheaper (less power too for the same performances), so for my NAS and laptop it's my choice, and probably if I had to build a gaming computer I would use AMD too.

throwaway914 3y ago

It pisses me off that AMD does either low/cheap laptops or extremely gaudy gaming machines. There's this high performance ultrabook niche that I wish they could make inroads to. It is impossible to find: AMD + high resolution screen (3840x2400) + 120hz + OLED. In the last year even the Intel ones downgraded though, everyone went 3200x2000 @ 120hz OLED. It's just frustrating when you're looking at upper-end AMD laptops and you cannot find 16GB of memory, or a decent screen. I'm glad they can dish out $500-$800 laptops, but I don't know why OEMs are always pairing the good components with Intel.

fodkodrasz 3y ago
It must be a coincidence.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel#Allegations_by_the_European_Union_(2007–2008) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel#Allegations_by_the_Europ...
- baybal2 3y ago
  [dead]
pizza234 3y ago
> It's just frustrating when you're looking at upper-end AMD laptops and you cannot find 16GB of memory, or a decent screen. This is not correct. Just looking at Lenovo (and surely, there are similar machines from other brands), even a mainstream laptop like the Yoga 7 14" AMD ships 16 GB, and it has a 2.8K OLED display as option. If you want more, the T14(s) can ship with 32 GB and matte display.
- grujicd 3y ago
  Also check Asus Zebook line, they have models with AMD CPU, OLED hidpi displays and 16GB/1TB.
- throwaway914 3y ago
  You are right, but 2.8k is them again gimping AMD. We should be expecting 2160p minimum.