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I think it counts as surveillance when it's published material, but surveillance of public material does not seem so troublesome to me. For ex. if these teache

I think it counts as surveillance when it's published material, but surveillance of public material does not seem so troublesome to me. For ex. if these teachers had instead published their complaints in old-fashioned letters-to-the-editor in print newspapers, I don't think anyone would be complaining that the government reads the newspapers. You could still complain about the chilling of dissent and the waste of resources.

ryandrake 3y ago
But, posting publicly to social media is almost exactly like a letter to the editor. You send your message to a company, the company reviews it, and then usually publishes it publicly for all to see. I would not feel "chilled" if someone (an employer, government, or whoever) trawled through my HN posts and made some kind of judgment or took action over what I post. I would expect it. It's public after all. I certainly moderate what I say here knowing this (maybe that's the chilling effect you mention?)
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  > I certainly moderate what I say here knowing this (maybe that's the chilling effect you mention?) Yeah that is the chilling effect. Yes, it's likely there are some things that are better to be "chilled". For instance if you were advocating for violence against public figures. But imagine the day your credit rating gets dinged because you post online that you disagree with some new tax reform bill being proposed. This happens because the agency managing your credit score is also lobbying for this tax reform. Or you criticize a government official online and the police show up at your door, which is something that absolutely has happened throughout history. The fact they are watching your social media isn't the problem. It's how they can (and eventually probably will) abuse that surveillance. Or whoever replaces them next time there is an election.
  - psd1 3y ago
    Just the watching is indeed a problem. It makes me feel violated. Whether or not I have something to hide, or might get a knock on the door, is a completely separate point.
    - bluefirebrand 3y ago
      I don't love the fact that everything is being watched and analyzed, but it's actions taken based on that data gathering that I'm worried about Of course we understand that the only reason to watch and analyze all of this data is to be able to take actions based on it I am definitely in favor of preventing the gathering to guarantee preventing the actions. No one should trust that data is being collected without any intention of using it.
- mecha_ghidorah 3y ago
  I'd definitely feel chilled, because what I post here isn't under my meatspace identity. I don't think they should have a right to pass judgement over something I'm doing under a pseudonym that can't be attached to me easily
- corobo 3y ago
  Well sure, but what if you throw in the possibility of mistaken identity? Might not be too chilling.. as long as they get the right person. Best hope other Ryan just parties it up a bit and nothing more sinister if you want to become a teacher.
pbhjpbhj 3y ago
I think it's more like installing listening posts in every pub than it is like reading letters to the editor. The web is a public space, yes, but unless I'm specifically attaching my identity to my statements then they are casual interactions and not "published" in the way a letter to the editor is. I think we can and should differentiate between what we say in casual conversation and way we state as a declaration of our public opinion to which we purposefully attach our name.

ryandrake 3y ago

But, posting publicly to social media is almost exactly like a letter to the editor. You send your message to a company, the company reviews it, and then usually publishes it publicly for all to see. I would not feel "chilled" if someone (an employer, government, or whoever) trawled through my HN posts and made some kind of judgment or took action over what I post. I would expect it. It's public after all. I certainly moderate what I say here knowing this (maybe that's the chilling effect you mention?)

bluefirebrand 3y ago
> I certainly moderate what I say here knowing this (maybe that's the chilling effect you mention?) Yeah that is the chilling effect. Yes, it's likely there are some things that are better to be "chilled". For instance if you were advocating for violence against public figures. But imagine the day your credit rating gets dinged because you post online that you disagree with some new tax reform bill being proposed. This happens because the agency managing your credit score is also lobbying for this tax reform. Or you criticize a government official online and the police show up at your door, which is something that absolutely has happened throughout history. The fact they are watching your social media isn't the problem. It's how they can (and eventually probably will) abuse that surveillance. Or whoever replaces them next time there is an election.
- psd1 3y ago
  Just the watching is indeed a problem. It makes me feel violated. Whether or not I have something to hide, or might get a knock on the door, is a completely separate point.
  - bluefirebrand 3y ago
    I don't love the fact that everything is being watched and analyzed, but it's actions taken based on that data gathering that I'm worried about Of course we understand that the only reason to watch and analyze all of this data is to be able to take actions based on it I am definitely in favor of preventing the gathering to guarantee preventing the actions. No one should trust that data is being collected without any intention of using it.
mecha_ghidorah 3y ago
I'd definitely feel chilled, because what I post here isn't under my meatspace identity. I don't think they should have a right to pass judgement over something I'm doing under a pseudonym that can't be attached to me easily
corobo 3y ago
Well sure, but what if you throw in the possibility of mistaken identity? Might not be too chilling.. as long as they get the right person. Best hope other Ryan just parties it up a bit and nothing more sinister if you want to become a teacher.

pbhjpbhj 3y ago

I think it's more like installing listening posts in every pub than it is like reading letters to the editor. The web is a public space, yes, but unless I'm specifically attaching my identity to my statements then they are casual interactions and not "published" in the way a letter to the editor is. I think we can and should differentiate between what we say in casual conversation and way we state as a declaration of our public opinion to which we purposefully attach our name.