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> First, a ceasefire help Palestinian and Israeli civilians, so your first paragraph is wrong. In the short term it helps Palestinian civilians. But Hamas doe

> First, a ceasefire help Palestinian and Israeli civilians, so your first paragraph is wrong. In the short term it helps Palestinian civilians. But Hamas doesn't care about ceasefire. never did. They've broken numerous previous such agreements. So, the only possible ceasefire is the one-sided, where Israel stops shooting at Palestinians. If they do that, more Israelis will die. They obviously care about Israelis more than they care about Palestinians. > Your second paragraph is wrong too. Palestinian in the west bank are represented by the Fatah, which is a secular organization. Religion plays no role in this dispute. Fatah are as much terrorists as Hamas is. It's just at this point in time it's convenient to pretend that they aren't. Plenty of Fatah members are doing time in Israeli prisons for killing or attempting to kill Israeli citizens. How did you come to a conclusion from what you wrote that Hamas doesn't represent Palestinians I don't have a clue. Hamas and Fatah don't differ on their position on "kill all Jews" question. They might not represent all Palestinians literally, but they are quite representative of the sentiment "on Palestinian street". They aren't some sort of a foreign plant nobody agrees with. They enjoy great support and love from their loyal subjects. > UNRWA What they do with schools is irrelevant. You simply don't have a clue what this is about. UNRWA was established to give eternal, hereditary refugee status to Arabs who attempted pogroms at the start of the independence war of 48, and then fled fearing retribution. This is what they refer to by the "right to return". The idea here is that children, or grand children, or grand-grand-grand...children of these people have a right to return to places like Yaffo and reclaim their properties. No other refugee in the world enjoys anything like this. Refugee status expires after some time. Maybe ten or so years. This is reasonable because such status puts its owner in a limbo of not being a citizen of any country. Should your refugee status expire, the country where you live must do something about it. Either grant you citizenship, or kick you out. UNRWA put these refugees into eternal Purgatory of being stateless. They are told by the UN "one day you'll go back to live in Tel Aviv". And Israel tells them "go jump off a cliff, I need no antisemite terrorist living in the middle of the largest city in my country". So, as long as Israel stands, they aren't coming back. No two- or three- or however many state solution isn't going to alter anything about their situation. They are screwed, by UN. UN could alter their decision to request monetary compensation for example. Israel would be very happy to comply. And whatever country that accepted these refugees would get a nice chunk of money to go with them. Yet UN is determined to keep this torture going because they are stubborn and stupid on one side, and on the other side all sorts of "human rights committees" have been hijacked by members with an axe to grind against Israel. And these refugees are a chip in this game. > Last paragraph: not sure why you conflate Gaza with Palestine. Dude. You obviously don't live there. Have never been there. Don't understand the language or the history of the place. I've spent 25 years of my life in this place. Palestine is not a thing. There's no agreement on what it is. But one thing I can tell you for sure, if anything is Palestine, Gaza is definitely there.

orwin 3y ago
> If they do that, more Israelis will die I highly doubt that even if Hamas shot more missiles after a ceasefire, any Israeli civilian would die from it. > Fatah are as much terrorists as Hamas is Disagree on that. Hamas essentially is anti-zionist (and anti-semitic) and use terror attack because they kill jews (they want to kill them all, as established once again by the recent pogrom). Fatah essentially want a two-state solution. They are revolutionary and push for an armed struggle, but if you call them terrorists, then FARCS are terrorist and French/Polish resistants were terrorists. > They enjoy great support and love from their loyal subjects. Hamas had 30M$ a month for a dozen years, yeah, i'm sure it's grassroot support and no indoctrination... > You simply don't have a clue what this is about. I indeed had no clue about that. Obviously i only know about UNRWA as a relief organization who provides training, food and money to hospital and schools in the middle east, i did not know it was only for palestinians (because the school/hospital i know work with them also used to help young jewish women and men w/o formal or secular education, and poor catholics). But "You simply don't have a clue what" refugee means. it doesnt "expire" after 10 years (this would be so weird) (read that: https://www.unhcr.org/media/convention-and-protocol-relating-status-refugees https://www.unhcr.org/media/convention-and-protocol-relating...). Are you conflating refugee, the international status, with the "refugee status" a national government grant after you are recognized as one? Because here how it work: a Palestinian have his refugee status recognized in France (thanks to UNWRA, it's easy if he can prove he is palestininan). From this point onwards, he has a residency card, and ten years of basic healthcare and minimum income. After those 10 years, if he did not get citizenship, he goes to Ofpra, ask again, and get it again. My mother hosted (or taught French to) different war refugees from Georgia until 2021, so hopefully they did not suddenly stopped being war refugees in 2018, or else the associations whe work with really screwed up. Still, i have not clue about that part of UNWRA: so i read about it for 5 minutes: UN cannot create statelessness (weird word). This is illegal under the Geneva convention, so as long as Palestine is not a nation, its hard to revoke the provision that make Palestinian refugees (because the million or so living in Gaza or in the west bank cannot be recognized as Palestinian as long as Palestine doesn't exist). Also UNWRA has nothing to do with the right to return. It's was created after (a over a hundred UN resolution after), so you're damn right i "don't have a clue what this is about", but a quick google-fu would have helped you too. By the way, this was both rude and wrong, which is the worst kind of rude. > You obviously don't live there. Have never been there. I don't, I have. Only for a couple days (that's also when i started reading Hareetz), my father was denied entry at the last moment and i choose to come back once it was clear he wouldn't be allowed to enter at all (making pre-90s lebanon the only Middle-East country he was able to enter due to having "Jerusalem" as place of birth on his passport), sadly the place he was born in was destroyed in 2020 during a "resettlement" and he will never see it.

orwin 3y ago

> If they do that, more Israelis will die I highly doubt that even if Hamas shot more missiles after a ceasefire, any Israeli civilian would die from it. > Fatah are as much terrorists as Hamas is Disagree on that. Hamas essentially is anti-zionist (and anti-semitic) and use terror attack because they kill jews (they want to kill them all, as established once again by the recent pogrom). Fatah essentially want a two-state solution. They are revolutionary and push for an armed struggle, but if you call them terrorists, then FARCS are terrorist and French/Polish resistants were terrorists. > They enjoy great support and love from their loyal subjects. Hamas had 30M$ a month for a dozen years, yeah, i'm sure it's grassroot support and no indoctrination... > You simply don't have a clue what this is about. I indeed had no clue about that. Obviously i only know about UNRWA as a relief organization who provides training, food and money to hospital and schools in the middle east, i did not know it was only for palestinians (because the school/hospital i know work with them also used to help young jewish women and men w/o formal or secular education, and poor catholics). But "You simply don't have a clue what" refugee means. it doesnt "expire" after 10 years (this would be so weird) (read that: https://www.unhcr.org/media/convention-and-protocol-relating-status-refugees https://www.unhcr.org/media/convention-and-protocol-relating...). Are you conflating refugee, the international status, with the "refugee status" a national government grant after you are recognized as one? Because here how it work: a Palestinian have his refugee status recognized in France (thanks to UNWRA, it's easy if he can prove he is palestininan). From this point onwards, he has a residency card, and ten years of basic healthcare and minimum income. After those 10 years, if he did not get citizenship, he goes to Ofpra, ask again, and get it again. My mother hosted (or taught French to) different war refugees from Georgia until 2021, so hopefully they did not suddenly stopped being war refugees in 2018, or else the associations whe work with really screwed up. Still, i have not clue about that part of UNWRA: so i read about it for 5 minutes: UN cannot create statelessness (weird word). This is illegal under the Geneva convention, so as long as Palestine is not a nation, its hard to revoke the provision that make Palestinian refugees (because the million or so living in Gaza or in the west bank cannot be recognized as Palestinian as long as Palestine doesn't exist). Also UNWRA has nothing to do with the right to return. It's was created after (a over a hundred UN resolution after), so you're damn right i "don't have a clue what this is about", but a quick google-fu would have helped you too. By the way, this was both rude and wrong, which is the worst kind of rude. > You obviously don't live there. Have never been there. I don't, I have. Only for a couple days (that's also when i started reading Hareetz), my father was denied entry at the last moment and i choose to come back once it was clear he wouldn't be allowed to enter at all (making pre-90s lebanon the only Middle-East country he was able to enter due to having "Jerusalem" as place of birth on his passport), sadly the place he was born in was destroyed in 2020 during a "resettlement" and he will never see it.