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New data poisoning tool lets artists fight back against generative AI
- jruohonen 3y agoFight fire with fire? I like the idea.
- wilg 3y agoSeems like this will take 5 seconds to work around and never catch on.
- artninja1988 3y agoImg2dataset and other tools already handles this through hash verification. But yes kudurru ai is a terrible initiative. I think browsers and search engines should ban any website using it.
- lawlessone 3y agoI am not sure how how hashing would help here? A hash would only be useful to see if someone tampered with data you already have and tried to swap your stored images for poison images. This is intended to deter scraping of images.
- artninja1988 3y agoI'm talking about being unable to switch out existing images from laion 5b, for example, with glazed versions to poison the dataset.
- lawlessone 3y agoSo why should browser or search engines ban someone from using this tech on their images?
- Hizonner 3y agoI think my browser should display the sites I tell it to, thank you very much.
- practice9 3y agoIt's not new and it doesn't work. Hopefully they don't try to sell it to artists, because that would be literally a scam.
- kelsey9876543 3y agowhen will artists accept genai as a tool not a competitor? all artists with genai tools easily outclass a non artist fiddling around
- glimshe 3y agoMy artist cousin uses AI to be able to take more customers. He's very happy with it. Just go back to the 70s and read all the discussions about the jobs killed by computers. Before computers, more artists were needed for the same output, while now artists can do things that could only be dreamed a generation ago. Also, when artists finally get compensated for training, expect Spotify-style cents. Artists won't be able to stop this, they are just not strong enough as a group, for better or worse.
- mistrial9 3y agoclearly recall the arts world of the 1970s. Manual arts, manual publishing tasks and the business around that employed many orders of magnitude more people in many large metro areas. Fast Forward to post-Lucasfilm digital era and the size of the largest media companies magnified by 1000x, while sign shops closed and local typesetting and design firms had to go digital or die. Fast forward again to post-covid, and I believe that you would be lucky to find a few of the earlier activities at all, in any city. Meanwhile games employ thousands of anonymous artists remotely, and very, very few individuals run their own business with any stability. Digital arts has been a magnifier for the largest companies, and the literal death of thousands of stable, small business, in fifty years.
- raxxorraxor 3y agoI think artists on the low end might suffer. I have commissioned some images and models for some hobby projects, even while I paint and model myself. Probably would use AI to generate images today.
- glimshe 3y agoInnovation tends to wipe out the low end everywhere. At the same time, more people can generate their own images without having to find an artist. In practice, images that wouldn't be created because of costs will now be created.
- some_random 3y ago>It works in a similar way to Nightshade: by changing the pixels of images in subtle ways that are invisible to the human eye but manipulate machine-learning models to interpret the image as something different from what it actually shows. >Nightshade exploits a security vulnerability in generative AI models, one arising from the fact that they are trained on vast amounts of data—in this case, images that have been hoovered from the internet. Nightshade messes with those images. So, this will not work at all as soon as the vulnerability is patched? Adversarial attacks are super cool, but they flat out do not generalize afaik. If there's been some breakthrough I'd love to hear about it, but the idea doesn't pass the sniff test to me.
- dpflan 3y agoYes, pretty sure that is how it will always be with such attacks. cat-and-mouse forever.
- lawlessone 3y agoIt does put these companies in an awkward position though. If you're implementing defenses against this, it's conceding not all your sources of data consented, or at least that you're not 100% on their provenance.
- EnergyAmy 3y agoNot really. "We're just protecting ourselves from the 4chan trolls"
- londons_explore 3y agoMore importantly, you can detect this and filter out those images pretty easily - which means you have implicit consent from the users of all other images because they chose not to protect their images technically.
- zmgsabst 3y agoThat’s not how the law works. You can’t take things from a house because they didn’t lock the front door.
- blibble 3y agowill happily run this on several hundred highly starred GitHub projects if someone ports the approach to code... (of course if Microsoft let me opt out I'd have no reason to)
- artninja1988 3y agoIt's not about code Generation amigo. This is for images
- lawlessone 3y agoI think what he meant by port was to create an analogous software for code.
- Tokumei-no-hito 3y agowasn't there an attack a while ago that used hidden characters to break compilers? i'll see if i can dig it up. maybe something like that could be used for github. you'd have to have a pre commit and pull hook that would encode / decode the malicious characters
- artninja1988 3y agoWouldn't you just need to write a bunch of bad code?
- matteoraso 3y agoA little pointless, considering that Stable Diffusion is already at or near human levels. Worst case scenario, just train on pre-2022 images.
- BitwiseFool 3y agoLow background jpegs! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel
- aussieguy1234 3y agoStable Diffusion is capable of training on its own images
- TerrifiedMouse 3y agoIs that advisable? It won’t learn anything new and might reinforce its errors.
- ranguna 3y agoIt probably won't learn anything new, but it will learn not to generate bad images if you cherry pick the best ones for training.
- raxxorraxor 3y agoNo, it isn't if you don't curate meticulously. Perhaps by accident something new could emerge which is worth it to use as input for an advanced model. But the rule is that new concepts are very hard to produce, although thanks to countless models, stable diffusion is probably the most flexible approach by quite some margin.
- dzhiurgis 3y agoWonder how it plays with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention From my pov this is circumvention, but can we turn the tables and say genai trainers are the circumventors?
- blibble 3y agothat's a very good point macrovision was a DRM technique applied to DVDs it worked by very slightly altering the signal such that humans wouldn't notice, but prevented VHS recorders from making a decent copy macrovision removal devices were ruled as circumvention devices and hence illegal in both the US and EU this poisoning approach is essentially the same idea as macrovision, with pretty similar intent so I don't see why systematically removing it wouldn't count as circumvention
- pixl97 3y agoUh oh, you have a circumvention device right now then.... the print screen button.
- lawlessone 3y ago>Uh oh, you have a circumvention device right now then.... the print screen but A lot of the artists in the DA and other places that are annoyed with their work being used to train AI work by taking a commission to create an image and then share it online for everyone to enjoy. Their objection to it being used to train AI is more nuanced than people think.
- pixl97 3y agoNot really. Their argument is "Hey, I looked at everyones art all my life and used that to build my internal model, but it's time for me to pull up the ladder behind me" Copyright is not about reading your art, it's about the creation of subsequent works that are some arbitrary measure of 'too close' to the work other people already created.
- kookamamie 3y agoSounds like bullshit, to be frank. Training data already goes through a number of "subtle augmentations" and instead of "breaking" the resulting model, the augmentations help the model to generalize better.
- mensetmanusman 3y agoAll these tools (and tools to confirm legitimacy) are defeated by screenshots. This is our new world, accept the chaos.
- paulmd 3y agoKid named “knowingly causing the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causing damage without authorization, to a protected computer”:
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]