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For the work they do. Huge technical and communications skills requirements. The trust required. And shortages. Pilots seem to very underpaid and overworked.

For the work they do. Huge technical and communications skills requirements. The trust required. And shortages. Pilots seem to very underpaid and overworked. I'd think twice about flying on any airline if I thought or new they were anything less than pampered.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
> Pilots seem to very underpaid and overworked. Seems to be a trend these days. The more safety critical the job, the worse conditions and pay are.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  Competitive market and passengers view price as the overriding factor when buying a ticket.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    passengers view what they can afford, or what they can't afford the least, as the overriding factor when buying a ticket. Passengers who have money don't buy the cheapest flights they can find and care more about leg room, direct flights, and agreeable departure/arrival times. Poor people (the majority of the US) take whatever they can get.
  - axpy 3y ago
    Mostly because passenger have absolutely no way to understand airline pricing. The exact same seat can change price 2x in 24h. With that in mind, it’s almost impossible to know if you are getting more for your money or if you are seeing a product of the algorithm.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    All properly competitive markets have thin margins and price being a major competitive factor. The problem isn't with that, but rather with flight staff, as a class, being unable to defend proper salaries and work conditions against the competitive pressures on airlines, and as a result they end up squeezed to near a breaking point. (I'm no political or labor expert, but to me this feels like a case of the air crews being in need of an union.) There's a public safety interest in fixing that, but like with other safety-critical jobs, there seems to be no way for that interest to become a force acting on the market. Yes, it would mean slightly more expensive flights, but as it is, the price floor on air travel is too low. Sure, current prices mean flights are available to more people, but that's just subsidizing the poor via having everyone accept a small but growing risk of death.
    - SoftTalker 3y ago
      There certainly are pilots unions in the USA and other countries. I don't know what percentage of commercial pilots are unionized, and I don't know how much real power the unions have. When push comes to shove they may be prohibited from striking, as air travel is an essential service (remember when President Reagan fired the striking PATCO controllers). One difference there is that air controllers are FAA employees and pilots are employees of the airlines. So, with pilots in short supply generally, and if they had a strong union you'd think that they'd be in a position to command good compensation.
  - AtlasBarfed 3y ago
    Airline CEOs are making at least three or four million a year. Strange, the compensation in the executive class is never that heavily squeezed
    - SoftTalker 3y ago
      Because the CEO's pay is peanuts in the context of the financials of a major airline. They spend many multiples of that on one airplane.
autoexec 3y ago
Yeah, I imagine paying pilots better would help solve the "shortage" problem and ease the mental health burden as well.
- nradov 3y ago
  Yes, to an extent. But there is a long delay between raising wages and having a pilot ready to work for an airline. The pipeline takes years. It takes years to earn the necessary licenses and build up enough flight hours. What would help more in the long run is for airlines to hire untrained candidates and then pay them to go through training. Lots of people would like to become pilots but can't afford to pay for their own training. Some foreign carriers already do this.

TeMPOraL 3y ago

> Pilots seem to very underpaid and overworked. Seems to be a trend these days. The more safety critical the job, the worse conditions and pay are.

SoftTalker 3y ago
Competitive market and passengers view price as the overriding factor when buying a ticket.
- autoexec 3y ago
  passengers view what they can afford, or what they can't afford the least, as the overriding factor when buying a ticket. Passengers who have money don't buy the cheapest flights they can find and care more about leg room, direct flights, and agreeable departure/arrival times. Poor people (the majority of the US) take whatever they can get.
- axpy 3y ago
  Mostly because passenger have absolutely no way to understand airline pricing. The exact same seat can change price 2x in 24h. With that in mind, it’s almost impossible to know if you are getting more for your money or if you are seeing a product of the algorithm.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  All properly competitive markets have thin margins and price being a major competitive factor. The problem isn't with that, but rather with flight staff, as a class, being unable to defend proper salaries and work conditions against the competitive pressures on airlines, and as a result they end up squeezed to near a breaking point. (I'm no political or labor expert, but to me this feels like a case of the air crews being in need of an union.) There's a public safety interest in fixing that, but like with other safety-critical jobs, there seems to be no way for that interest to become a force acting on the market. Yes, it would mean slightly more expensive flights, but as it is, the price floor on air travel is too low. Sure, current prices mean flights are available to more people, but that's just subsidizing the poor via having everyone accept a small but growing risk of death.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    There certainly are pilots unions in the USA and other countries. I don't know what percentage of commercial pilots are unionized, and I don't know how much real power the unions have. When push comes to shove they may be prohibited from striking, as air travel is an essential service (remember when President Reagan fired the striking PATCO controllers). One difference there is that air controllers are FAA employees and pilots are employees of the airlines. So, with pilots in short supply generally, and if they had a strong union you'd think that they'd be in a position to command good compensation.
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  Airline CEOs are making at least three or four million a year. Strange, the compensation in the executive class is never that heavily squeezed
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    Because the CEO's pay is peanuts in the context of the financials of a major airline. They spend many multiples of that on one airplane.

autoexec 3y ago

Yeah, I imagine paying pilots better would help solve the "shortage" problem and ease the mental health burden as well.

nradov 3y ago
Yes, to an extent. But there is a long delay between raising wages and having a pilot ready to work for an airline. The pipeline takes years. It takes years to earn the necessary licenses and build up enough flight hours. What would help more in the long run is for airlines to hire untrained candidates and then pay them to go through training. Lots of people would like to become pilots but can't afford to pay for their own training. Some foreign carriers already do this.