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I think there's a fine line here. If someone is openly supporting terrorism or harm then they should be called out. Expressing support for Gaza, or Palestine, o

I think there's a fine line here. If someone is openly supporting terrorism or harm then they should be called out. Expressing support for Gaza, or Palestine, on the other hand is very different.

diggan 3y ago
The site in question: https://anti-israel-employee.co.il https://anti-israel-employee.co.il Two of the posts on the website that flags a "anti-Israeli" / "terrorist supporter" person: > I know this is a professional plattform but we are human .. and you don't have to be a Muslim to support Palestine, you just have to be a human being. #SaveHumanity #SavePalestine > Praise and thank the Lord. #betterlatethannever #savethechildren #prayforGaza #prayforpeace Is this what counts as "terrorist" supporter these days? Overall I agree with you, people should be shamed for any sort of support of terrorists, no question about it. But this seems to be something else, it seems to be flagging "anti-Israel" sentiment, which seems to include a lot more than just anti-Zionism.
- vkou 3y ago
  > Is this what counts as "terrorist" supporter these days? Yes, in many mainstream circles. It's absolutely insane. The world goes insane every time this 75-year war gets front-page billing.
  - isykt 3y ago
    Those of us who came of age during the "War on Terror" are feeling a distinct sense of deja vu.
- underseacables 3y ago
  I would agree with you that it is wrong. Just because someone disagrees with Israel, or calls Israel out for actions that it has committed, is not the same as terrorism or making a threat. It's a really fine line, and I think regrettably that it moves with the political climate.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    The issue is foreign commentators can do it in an unneccesarily divisive manner that causes blowback. Plenty of Israeli Arabs (eg. A few who directly report to me) have denounced Hamas on LinkedIn but also voiced public criticism to the heavy-handed response that the IDF is doing. Heck, several of the survivors from the Nova Music festival were saved by Bedouin nearby, and plenty of the ongoing shelling in the North is impacting Israeli Arabs. Heck, a Chechen/Circassian mosque was hit by a Hamas rocket. Western commentators are making it a black-and-white issue where you either support the Palestinian cause or the Israeli cause with no middle. The 2nd/3rd/Nth generation Jewish and Arab diaspora have both been posting some vile comments about the other.
    - colpabar 3y ago
      > Western commentators are making it a black-and-white issue where you either support the Palestinian cause or the Israeli cause with no middle. I think you are being too charitable. From what I have seen, it's "you either support the Israeli cause or you are a terrorist who hates freedom." All we need now is a war criminal republican president for democrats to loudly criticize yet support at every opportunity to invade a country that had nothing to do with the attacks and it'll be just like the early 2000s again.
      - alephnerd 3y ago
        It goes both ways. I've seen some toxic douchebags say that the only good Palestinian is a dead Palestinian. I've also had some douchebags PERSONALLY tell me "From river to sea, Palestine will be free" under the assumption that as a brown guy I'd sympathize. Everyone is in their own damn echo chamber and yelling across of each other. Assholes on sides need to get fucking slapped.
        SauciestGNU 3y ago
        This is the problem though, you're equating the wish for an end to the occupation of Palestine with an explicit call for genocide. The two are not equivalent.
- CaptainNegative 3y ago
  > ... and you don't have to be a Muslim to support Palestine, you just have to be a human being One can support innocent Palestinians without supporting Palestine, the same way one can support innocent Israelis without supporting Israel. Not sure why they decided to sneak in some dehumanization into what masquerades as a positive sentiment.
  - TrinaryWorksToo 3y ago
    It's also not so great a leap to think that supporting a country means supporting its citizens. Your interpretation is valid, I don't understand why it would need heavy moderation. Perhaps hiding the post and asking it to reword it to be clearer?
  - unmole 3y ago
    > Not sure why they decided to sneak in some dehumanization into what masquerades as a positive sentiment. Yeah, no. That's meant as an appeal to humanity beyond tribal solidarity. Reading dehumanization into it is a bit much.
    - CaptainNegative 3y ago
      How do you read that other than as "if you have humanity, you support Palestine", which is semantically equivalent to "if you don't support Palestine, you have no humanity"?
- hanniabu 3y ago
  > Is this what counts as "terrorist" supporter these days? Yes, when you're standing in the way of Israel and US ravaging a country by supporting those people, you are a terrorist.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  > > Praise and thank the Lord. #betterlatethannever #savethechildren #prayforGaza #prayforpeace > Is this what counts as "terrorist" supporter these days? Does "better late than never" refer to Hamas's attack on Israel, where they killed roughly a thousand people? If not, what does it refer to? Does "Praise and thank the Lord" refer to the same thing? If you're praising God for that, you may not be a terrorist "supporter", but you're certainly a terrorist cheerleader and advocate. And if you are referring to that, and saying "pray for peace" on the same line? Then your hypocrisy is nauseating. All this is based on my interpretation of "better late than never". If I'm interpreting it wrongly, please clue me in as to what it actually means.
  - justin66 3y ago
    If you have to puzzle out the meaning of a hashtag maybe you're not dealing with the kind of terrorist threat that should be censored.
    - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
      I can accept that... provided it applies on all sides. It means you can't say "that's a dogwhistle" when the far right says something that is not overtly racist. (Or at least, you can't expect "that's a dogwhistle" to result in them being censored/deplatformed/whatever.)
      - justin66 3y ago
        I'd reject the notion that a hashtag you don't understand and feel inclined to question alongside a bunch of hashtags with an obviously positive meaning is equivalent to racist dogwhistling. Given the positive context of the hashtag it seems possible "better late than never" refers to the trucks carrying aid finally rolling, the freeing of hostages, or some other positive thing. It's not strongly associated with much of anything that's trending on twitter. A person with doubts about that commenter's intent would seek out greater context in the poster's other comments, I would think.
  - ZeroGravitas 3y ago
- crabbone 3y ago
  > Is this what counts as "terrorist" supporter. Well, yes. Here's how. People who make arguments for "good Palestinians unrelated to Hamas" and for "ceasefire", against "humanitarian disaster" all very obviously blame Israel for harming those "good Palestinians" and not stopping firing etc. Which definitely helps Hamas and doesn't Help any Palestinians, nor Israelis. For the most part it's just stupidity of people uninvolved with the conflict who found it easy to believe a story of oppression by a superior military / economical power. This is also what pushes the idea of "Hamas not representing Palestinians". While, unfortunately, it does. But every Western society rejects this grim reality. Because admitting it would lead to asking very inconvenient questions, revision of previously established policies... basically, admitting to being stupid and being manipulated by some "Nigerian prince". Here's one example. Every political / military organization which wants to kill all Jews and establish Palestine "from the river to the sea" tries to legitimize this claim by appealing to UN's charter that warrants every nation the right to rule over themselves. In the case with Israel, there's what appears to be a conflicting resolution from the UN legitimizing Israeli state. While UN finds time to condemn Israel on a monthly basis, it could never find time to resolve this dispute. They'd have to go back and revisit this claim about every nation being able to rule themselves, amend it with some cases where that doesn't apply... but they are happy to sit on their hands, and the conflict keeps going. UNRWA is the same story: bad decision that keeps fueling the hatred, but UN will never admit they did something stupid, and will never reverse their decisions. So, back to blaming humanitarian disaster on Israel: Israel is as much responsible for the humanitarian disaster as the world's oceans are responsible for the rising sea level. Israel is playing its hand the best they can. But, they aren't the reason civilians are dying in Gaza. No more than gravity or the engineers who designed fighter jets. So, why is it surprising that Israel doesn't want to hear itself blamed for something that had no influence over? They are facing the same media device that's used by Americans who claim that "blue lives matter" -- a superficially innocent claim that, out of context could just mean that someone wants to support the police doing quite dangerous job, while, in reality, it's a reactionary stance that's meant to counteract the other sentiment: "black lives matter", instead of being used to actually help the police. People behind the tag of "SavePalestine" don't really want to save Palestine. They are manipulating public sentiment to be against Israel. Had they really want to save Palestine, they'd be appealing to the UN to cancel UNRWA, to work with Israel in declaring Gaza a "failed state", preventing Gaza from having its own government, military, courts etc. instead having some form of international government, blue helmets etc. take control for the next 3-5 decades at least.
- grumple 3y ago
  I didn't really want to engage on HN as I think this whole post doesn't belong here (politically charged content is something this site generally avoids), but I will highlight the issue here. If you jump in to advocate support of Palestinians / Gaza, but didn't express any support for Israelis / Israel when Hamas (the elected and still popular government of Gaza) murdered over 1000 civilians, you're not an unbiased supporter that just wants peace. You have ignored the catalyst of the current episode of this conflict, which was an incredibly, obviously evil act against Israeli and foreign civilians, by Hamas, and widely celebrated in Gaza. The worldwide attacks on Jews and synagogues, the chants of "Gas the Jews" and "From the River to the Sea" (which is a call for genocide of Israelis), the open calls from Palestinian terrorist groups calling for attacks on Jews worldwide, make it clear that antizionism is inextricably linked with antisemitism (as does the actual history of the conflict).
  - LindeBuzoGray 3y ago
    > Hamas (the elected and still popular government of Gaza) murdered over 1000 civilians Israel killed over 1000 Palestinians from 2018 until before Operation al-Aqsa Flood. There's nothing really unusual about it from.that context. And Israel us currently massacring civilians in Gaza every day. > the catalyst of the current episode of this conflict Israelis murdered people on an aid flotilla a few years ago, and are evicting West Bank Palestinians from their homes with settlers, as the Israelis parade around the al-Aqsa mosque.
    - grumple 3y ago
      > Israel killed over 1000 Palestinians from 2018 until before Operation al-Aqsa Flood. There's nothing really unusual about it from.that context. And Israel us currently massacring civilians in Gaza every day. Hamas makes no distinction between their soldiers and civilians deaths. And given their blatant lies about the supposed IDF attack on a hospital this week (actually caused by a Palestinian rocket which failed) and impossibly high and fast death count, and the whole being a terrorist organization, they can't be trusted. Israel attempts to avoid civilians casualties via roof knocks and phone messages. The only exceptions here tend to be people storming the border. You are comparing that against designed, intentional murder, rape, and torture of civilians by Hamas. > Israelis murdered people on an aid flotilla a few years ago, and are evicting West Bank Palestinians from their homes with settlers, as the Israelis parade around the al-Aqsa mosque. That flotilla was trying to break a blockade and had been warned against it. When the ships were boarded, there was violent resistance, which resulted in some of the fighters being killed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid Evicting Palestinians from their homes in the West Bank is obviously vile behavior. It's hard to get a liberal government elected in Israel to stop it given the state of the conflict. About the mosque: It was the holiest site in Judaism for a thousand years before Islam existed.
isykt 3y ago
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  Remind me which freedom fighters target civilians?
  - LindeBuzoGray 3y ago
    I am watching Israel carpet bomb Gaza right now, I see Israel targeting civilians.
  - FrankoDelMar 3y ago
    "If crime fighters fight crime, and fire fighters fight fire, then what do freedom fighters fight?" - George Carlin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wXgQWlLT1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wXgQWlLT1c
  - mhalberstram 3y ago
    Nelson Mandela? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_National_Congress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_National_Congress French Resistance? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Resistance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Resistance And since when does Israel avoids civilians? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_Israeli_attacks_on_the_Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_Israeli_attacks_...
    - hersko 3y ago
      > And since when does Israel avoids civilians? Always? They have been very clear about trying to avoid civilian casualties. Saying they are not always successful doesn't prove anything when you are fighting an entrenched enemy that is using human shields.
      - LindeBuzoGray 3y ago
        Around the guard towers and military outposts surrounding Gaza, Israel had villages and concert venues - Israel's human shields.
GoodJokes 3y ago
[dead]
gustavus 3y ago
That's funny I remember a time not so long ago when just questioning the origin of a virus, or the efficacy of a vaccine got people outed silenced. I remember when just having discussions around if men should be allowed to compete in women's spaces got people blacklisted and shamed. I remember once when a landscaper that made the okay sign was fired from his job because everyone on the internet reached out to his employer to tell them he was a white supermacist when he had no idea what was going on. But you're right now we should have nuance, and distinction when shaming and doxxing people who are wrong.
- plagiarist 3y ago
  "Questioning," is an odd way to spell, "making assertions with zero supporting evidence as an excuse to refuse to wear a 1-ply cotton cloth in public." I never saw anyone question the efficacy of the vaccine. I saw plenty of people saying it is deadly and/or will grow spikes on one's testicles or ovaries. It's hard to have nuance with people who are participating dishonestly from the outset.
  - Proziam 3y ago
    > I never saw anyone question the efficacy of the vaccine There is just about a zero percent chance this is true. Many people were openly frustrated that the vaccinated would still get and spread covid despite originally being told that wouldn't happen. The "jab kills you" thing didn't gain traction until after the official narrative changed from "You won't get covid" -> "You won't get as sick from covid"
    - plagiarist 3y ago
      The "official narrative" changed when new variants of the virus spread and behaved differently. "Delta won't hospitalize you but you can still catch this new omega (it's not as bad)," is still very effective. Retconning it to pretend like "the narrative" radically changed for no reason is another problem when discussing things with people who are intentionally dishonest.
unmole 3y ago
The expression fine line is used to mean a subtle distinction. And as you said, the distinction here is not subtle at all.
dheera 3y ago
People are unfortunately very, very, stupid. They cannot cope with the notion that one could be pro-Palestine AND pro-Israel AND anti-terrorist AND anti-war, all at the same time. If you are pro-Palestine they think you must be anti-Israel, if you are pro-Israel they think you must be anti-Palestine. Which is an idiotic assumption but millions of people think this way. So companies don't want to tread this line at all, because they have stock prices and earnings and other things to worry about.
- SirMaster 3y ago
  "He's right." "He's right, and he's right? They can't both be right." "You know, you are also right." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7RmcdHrYuk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7RmcdHrYuk
- johnnyworker 3y ago
  To me it boils down to international law and the Geneva convention, and how they either apply to all or nobody. That is, by the same token terrorism is wrong, Israeli settlers murdering Palestinians and the IDF murdering journalists and bombing civilians under flimsy slogans about "human shields" is wrong. The same international law that makes the settlements illegal confirms Israel's right to exist. Want the settlements? Can't have Israel, not via rights afforded by international law. Want Israel? Can't have the settlements. And so on. It's a simple matter of having principles rather than group affiliations. "Never again" isn't about Jews, it's about what the Nazis did; the actions and the dehumanizing sophistry to justify them, nothing more, nothing less.
gxt 3y ago
The palestinians opposing hamas are extremely quiet. In Sidney the crowds flying palestinian colors chant "gas the Jews" and in Montreal "from the river to the sea". Making the distinction between terrorists and civilians without also acknowledging the specific behaviour of these groups of supporters is another fine line which might land one square with pro-genocide folks if not careful.
- LindeBuzoGray 3y ago
  Some Israelis are saying similar things but they are cabinet ministers, not random people in a crowd.

I think there's a fine line here. If someone is openly supporting terrorism or harm then they should be called out. Expressing support for Gaza, or Palestine, on the other hand is very different.

diggan 3y ago

The site in question: https://anti-israel-employee.co.il https://anti-israel-employee.co.il Two of the posts on the website that flags a "anti-Israeli" / "terrorist supporter" person: > I know this is a professional plattform but we are human .. and you don't have to be a Muslim to support Palestine, you just have to be a human being. #SaveHumanity #SavePalestine > Praise and thank the Lord. #betterlatethannever #savethechildren #prayforGaza #prayforpeace Is this what counts as "terrorist" supporter these days? Overall I agree with you, people should be shamed for any sort of support of terrorists, no question about it. But this seems to be something else, it seems to be flagging "anti-Israel" sentiment, which seems to include a lot more than just anti-Zionism.

vkou 3y ago
> Is this what counts as "terrorist" supporter these days? Yes, in many mainstream circles. It's absolutely insane. The world goes insane every time this 75-year war gets front-page billing.
- isykt 3y ago
  Those of us who came of age during the "War on Terror" are feeling a distinct sense of deja vu.
underseacables 3y ago
I would agree with you that it is wrong. Just because someone disagrees with Israel, or calls Israel out for actions that it has committed, is not the same as terrorism or making a threat. It's a really fine line, and I think regrettably that it moves with the political climate.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  The issue is foreign commentators can do it in an unneccesarily divisive manner that causes blowback. Plenty of Israeli Arabs (eg. A few who directly report to me) have denounced Hamas on LinkedIn but also voiced public criticism to the heavy-handed response that the IDF is doing. Heck, several of the survivors from the Nova Music festival were saved by Bedouin nearby, and plenty of the ongoing shelling in the North is impacting Israeli Arabs. Heck, a Chechen/Circassian mosque was hit by a Hamas rocket. Western commentators are making it a black-and-white issue where you either support the Palestinian cause or the Israeli cause with no middle. The 2nd/3rd/Nth generation Jewish and Arab diaspora have both been posting some vile comments about the other.
  - colpabar 3y ago
    > Western commentators are making it a black-and-white issue where you either support the Palestinian cause or the Israeli cause with no middle. I think you are being too charitable. From what I have seen, it's "you either support the Israeli cause or you are a terrorist who hates freedom." All we need now is a war criminal republican president for democrats to loudly criticize yet support at every opportunity to invade a country that had nothing to do with the attacks and it'll be just like the early 2000s again.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      It goes both ways. I've seen some toxic douchebags say that the only good Palestinian is a dead Palestinian. I've also had some douchebags PERSONALLY tell me "From river to sea, Palestine will be free" under the assumption that as a brown guy I'd sympathize. Everyone is in their own damn echo chamber and yelling across of each other. Assholes on sides need to get fucking slapped.
      - SauciestGNU 3y ago
        This is the problem though, you're equating the wish for an end to the occupation of Palestine with an explicit call for genocide. The two are not equivalent.
CaptainNegative 3y ago
> ... and you don't have to be a Muslim to support Palestine, you just have to be a human being One can support innocent Palestinians without supporting Palestine, the same way one can support innocent Israelis without supporting Israel. Not sure why they decided to sneak in some dehumanization into what masquerades as a positive sentiment.
- TrinaryWorksToo 3y ago
  It's also not so great a leap to think that supporting a country means supporting its citizens. Your interpretation is valid, I don't understand why it would need heavy moderation. Perhaps hiding the post and asking it to reword it to be clearer?
- unmole 3y ago
  > Not sure why they decided to sneak in some dehumanization into what masquerades as a positive sentiment. Yeah, no. That's meant as an appeal to humanity beyond tribal solidarity. Reading dehumanization into it is a bit much.
  - CaptainNegative 3y ago
    How do you read that other than as "if you have humanity, you support Palestine", which is semantically equivalent to "if you don't support Palestine, you have no humanity"?
hanniabu 3y ago
> Is this what counts as "terrorist" supporter these days? Yes, when you're standing in the way of Israel and US ravaging a country by supporting those people, you are a terrorist.
AnimalMuppet 3y ago
> > Praise and thank the Lord. #betterlatethannever #savethechildren #prayforGaza #prayforpeace > Is this what counts as "terrorist" supporter these days? Does "better late than never" refer to Hamas's attack on Israel, where they killed roughly a thousand people? If not, what does it refer to? Does "Praise and thank the Lord" refer to the same thing? If you're praising God for that, you may not be a terrorist "supporter", but you're certainly a terrorist cheerleader and advocate. And if you are referring to that, and saying "pray for peace" on the same line? Then your hypocrisy is nauseating. All this is based on my interpretation of "better late than never". If I'm interpreting it wrongly, please clue me in as to what it actually means.
- justin66 3y ago
  If you have to puzzle out the meaning of a hashtag maybe you're not dealing with the kind of terrorist threat that should be censored.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    I can accept that... provided it applies on all sides. It means you can't say "that's a dogwhistle" when the far right says something that is not overtly racist. (Or at least, you can't expect "that's a dogwhistle" to result in them being censored/deplatformed/whatever.)
    - justin66 3y ago
      I'd reject the notion that a hashtag you don't understand and feel inclined to question alongside a bunch of hashtags with an obviously positive meaning is equivalent to racist dogwhistling. Given the positive context of the hashtag it seems possible "better late than never" refers to the trucks carrying aid finally rolling, the freeing of hostages, or some other positive thing. It's not strongly associated with much of anything that's trending on twitter. A person with doubts about that commenter's intent would seek out greater context in the poster's other comments, I would think.
- ZeroGravitas 3y ago
crabbone 3y ago
> Is this what counts as "terrorist" supporter. Well, yes. Here's how. People who make arguments for "good Palestinians unrelated to Hamas" and for "ceasefire", against "humanitarian disaster" all very obviously blame Israel for harming those "good Palestinians" and not stopping firing etc. Which definitely helps Hamas and doesn't Help any Palestinians, nor Israelis. For the most part it's just stupidity of people uninvolved with the conflict who found it easy to believe a story of oppression by a superior military / economical power. This is also what pushes the idea of "Hamas not representing Palestinians". While, unfortunately, it does. But every Western society rejects this grim reality. Because admitting it would lead to asking very inconvenient questions, revision of previously established policies... basically, admitting to being stupid and being manipulated by some "Nigerian prince". Here's one example. Every political / military organization which wants to kill all Jews and establish Palestine "from the river to the sea" tries to legitimize this claim by appealing to UN's charter that warrants every nation the right to rule over themselves. In the case with Israel, there's what appears to be a conflicting resolution from the UN legitimizing Israeli state. While UN finds time to condemn Israel on a monthly basis, it could never find time to resolve this dispute. They'd have to go back and revisit this claim about every nation being able to rule themselves, amend it with some cases where that doesn't apply... but they are happy to sit on their hands, and the conflict keeps going. UNRWA is the same story: bad decision that keeps fueling the hatred, but UN will never admit they did something stupid, and will never reverse their decisions. So, back to blaming humanitarian disaster on Israel: Israel is as much responsible for the humanitarian disaster as the world's oceans are responsible for the rising sea level. Israel is playing its hand the best they can. But, they aren't the reason civilians are dying in Gaza. No more than gravity or the engineers who designed fighter jets. So, why is it surprising that Israel doesn't want to hear itself blamed for something that had no influence over? They are facing the same media device that's used by Americans who claim that "blue lives matter" -- a superficially innocent claim that, out of context could just mean that someone wants to support the police doing quite dangerous job, while, in reality, it's a reactionary stance that's meant to counteract the other sentiment: "black lives matter", instead of being used to actually help the police. People behind the tag of "SavePalestine" don't really want to save Palestine. They are manipulating public sentiment to be against Israel. Had they really want to save Palestine, they'd be appealing to the UN to cancel UNRWA, to work with Israel in declaring Gaza a "failed state", preventing Gaza from having its own government, military, courts etc. instead having some form of international government, blue helmets etc. take control for the next 3-5 decades at least.
grumple 3y ago
I didn't really want to engage on HN as I think this whole post doesn't belong here (politically charged content is something this site generally avoids), but I will highlight the issue here. If you jump in to advocate support of Palestinians / Gaza, but didn't express any support for Israelis / Israel when Hamas (the elected and still popular government of Gaza) murdered over 1000 civilians, you're not an unbiased supporter that just wants peace. You have ignored the catalyst of the current episode of this conflict, which was an incredibly, obviously evil act against Israeli and foreign civilians, by Hamas, and widely celebrated in Gaza. The worldwide attacks on Jews and synagogues, the chants of "Gas the Jews" and "From the River to the Sea" (which is a call for genocide of Israelis), the open calls from Palestinian terrorist groups calling for attacks on Jews worldwide, make it clear that antizionism is inextricably linked with antisemitism (as does the actual history of the conflict).
- LindeBuzoGray 3y ago
  > Hamas (the elected and still popular government of Gaza) murdered over 1000 civilians Israel killed over 1000 Palestinians from 2018 until before Operation al-Aqsa Flood. There's nothing really unusual about it from.that context. And Israel us currently massacring civilians in Gaza every day. > the catalyst of the current episode of this conflict Israelis murdered people on an aid flotilla a few years ago, and are evicting West Bank Palestinians from their homes with settlers, as the Israelis parade around the al-Aqsa mosque.
  - grumple 3y ago
    > Israel killed over 1000 Palestinians from 2018 until before Operation al-Aqsa Flood. There's nothing really unusual about it from.that context. And Israel us currently massacring civilians in Gaza every day. Hamas makes no distinction between their soldiers and civilians deaths. And given their blatant lies about the supposed IDF attack on a hospital this week (actually caused by a Palestinian rocket which failed) and impossibly high and fast death count, and the whole being a terrorist organization, they can't be trusted. Israel attempts to avoid civilians casualties via roof knocks and phone messages. The only exceptions here tend to be people storming the border. You are comparing that against designed, intentional murder, rape, and torture of civilians by Hamas. > Israelis murdered people on an aid flotilla a few years ago, and are evicting West Bank Palestinians from their homes with settlers, as the Israelis parade around the al-Aqsa mosque. That flotilla was trying to break a blockade and had been warned against it. When the ships were boarded, there was violent resistance, which resulted in some of the fighters being killed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid Evicting Palestinians from their homes in the West Bank is obviously vile behavior. It's hard to get a liberal government elected in Israel to stop it given the state of the conflict. About the mosque: It was the holiest site in Judaism for a thousand years before Islam existed.

isykt 3y ago

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
Remind me which freedom fighters target civilians?
- LindeBuzoGray 3y ago
  I am watching Israel carpet bomb Gaza right now, I see Israel targeting civilians.
- FrankoDelMar 3y ago
  "If crime fighters fight crime, and fire fighters fight fire, then what do freedom fighters fight?" - George Carlin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wXgQWlLT1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wXgQWlLT1c
- mhalberstram 3y ago
  Nelson Mandela? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_National_Congress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_National_Congress French Resistance? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Resistance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Resistance And since when does Israel avoids civilians? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_Israeli_attacks_on_the_Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_Israeli_attacks_...
  - hersko 3y ago
    > And since when does Israel avoids civilians? Always? They have been very clear about trying to avoid civilian casualties. Saying they are not always successful doesn't prove anything when you are fighting an entrenched enemy that is using human shields.
    - LindeBuzoGray 3y ago
      Around the guard towers and military outposts surrounding Gaza, Israel had villages and concert venues - Israel's human shields.

GoodJokes 3y ago

[dead]

gustavus 3y ago

That's funny I remember a time not so long ago when just questioning the origin of a virus, or the efficacy of a vaccine got people outed silenced. I remember when just having discussions around if men should be allowed to compete in women's spaces got people blacklisted and shamed. I remember once when a landscaper that made the okay sign was fired from his job because everyone on the internet reached out to his employer to tell them he was a white supermacist when he had no idea what was going on. But you're right now we should have nuance, and distinction when shaming and doxxing people who are wrong.

plagiarist 3y ago
"Questioning," is an odd way to spell, "making assertions with zero supporting evidence as an excuse to refuse to wear a 1-ply cotton cloth in public." I never saw anyone question the efficacy of the vaccine. I saw plenty of people saying it is deadly and/or will grow spikes on one's testicles or ovaries. It's hard to have nuance with people who are participating dishonestly from the outset.
- Proziam 3y ago
  > I never saw anyone question the efficacy of the vaccine There is just about a zero percent chance this is true. Many people were openly frustrated that the vaccinated would still get and spread covid despite originally being told that wouldn't happen. The "jab kills you" thing didn't gain traction until after the official narrative changed from "You won't get covid" -> "You won't get as sick from covid"
  - plagiarist 3y ago
    The "official narrative" changed when new variants of the virus spread and behaved differently. "Delta won't hospitalize you but you can still catch this new omega (it's not as bad)," is still very effective. Retconning it to pretend like "the narrative" radically changed for no reason is another problem when discussing things with people who are intentionally dishonest.

unmole 3y ago

The expression fine line is used to mean a subtle distinction. And as you said, the distinction here is not subtle at all.

dheera 3y ago

People are unfortunately very, very, stupid. They cannot cope with the notion that one could be pro-Palestine AND pro-Israel AND anti-terrorist AND anti-war, all at the same time. If you are pro-Palestine they think you must be anti-Israel, if you are pro-Israel they think you must be anti-Palestine. Which is an idiotic assumption but millions of people think this way. So companies don't want to tread this line at all, because they have stock prices and earnings and other things to worry about.

SirMaster 3y ago
"He's right." "He's right, and he's right? They can't both be right." "You know, you are also right." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7RmcdHrYuk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7RmcdHrYuk
johnnyworker 3y ago
To me it boils down to international law and the Geneva convention, and how they either apply to all or nobody. That is, by the same token terrorism is wrong, Israeli settlers murdering Palestinians and the IDF murdering journalists and bombing civilians under flimsy slogans about "human shields" is wrong. The same international law that makes the settlements illegal confirms Israel's right to exist. Want the settlements? Can't have Israel, not via rights afforded by international law. Want Israel? Can't have the settlements. And so on. It's a simple matter of having principles rather than group affiliations. "Never again" isn't about Jews, it's about what the Nazis did; the actions and the dehumanizing sophistry to justify them, nothing more, nothing less.

gxt 3y ago

The palestinians opposing hamas are extremely quiet. In Sidney the crowds flying palestinian colors chant "gas the Jews" and in Montreal "from the river to the sea". Making the distinction between terrorists and civilians without also acknowledging the specific behaviour of these groups of supporters is another fine line which might land one square with pro-genocide folks if not careful.

LindeBuzoGray 3y ago
Some Israelis are saying similar things but they are cabinet ministers, not random people in a crowd.