47 ms·

Postponed != win Postponed = () => await nextCrisis() .then(crisis => introduceUncomfortableLegislationBecauseOf(crisis))

ajsnigrutin 3y ago
Yep, we have to "win" (or postpone in this case) every goddamn time, and they have to "win" only once for the thing to get signed and stamped.
- FredPret 3y ago
  Three ways we win forever: - out-innovate the authoritarians somehow - go on the political offensive to have non-tech people realize why they should care about things like this - establish an entire new model for society somewhere, like how personal freedom maximalists left the then-monarchical/theocratic Europe for the new world long ago
  - vaylian 3y ago
    There is a deadline which is the end of the term of the current european commission (next year after the elections).If the new commission doesn't want to take this law any further, it will be dropped.
    - walterbell 3y ago
      How are new commission members (s)elected?
      - vaylian 3y ago
        see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission#Appointment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission#Appointmen... Each country sends candidates which then have to be approved by the european parliament.
      - denton-scratch 3y ago
        Each country gets one or two commissioners. They are appointed by their respective national governments, subject to approval by the EU Parliament (but rejection is as rare as rocking-horse shit). Basically, commissioners are usually former senior politicians who can no longer get elected, because they've been disgraced in some way or other. It's a sinecure. It's almost impossible to dismiss them; the EU Parliament only has the power to dismiss the entire commission. That sounds like a nuclear option that could never be used; but is has been done, exactly once. It was over corruption; the parliament decided that essentially every commissioner was crooked.
        matthewdgreen 3y ago
        As I understand it, the Parliament only gets a vote on the Commission President. The other 26 are selected by the Council of Ministers, without Parliamentary oversight.
        CrisMystik 3y ago
        > The other 26 are selected by the Council of Ministers, without Parliamentary oversight. No, after the European Parliament has approved the proposed President of the European Commission and the Council has chosen the other 26 commissioners, the Commission as a whole is subject to another vote of confidence by the European Parliament.
    - FredPret 3y ago
      It's a global trend though - consistent power-grabs
    - g-b-r 3y ago
      The new commission will be elected by either the same current coalition or far-right authoritarian parties...
  - andrepd 3y ago
    >like how personal freedom maximalists left the then-monarchical/theocratic Europe for the new world long ago Man someone needs to pick a history book asap x)
    - FredPret 3y ago
      Point out your objections, this isn't reddit.
      - andrepd 3y ago
        The objection is that the people who left Europe for the new world weren't "freedom maximalists escaping theocracies"
        FredPret 3y ago
        Well, pick up a history book, and you'll see lots of people escaped religious persecution in Europe. They wanted to practice their religion / lack thereof, thus were freedom-seeking. They were willing to brave an Atlantic crossing in small wooden ships and build brand-new lives rather than put up with curtailed freedoms; hence "maximalists". And when you mix church and state, or when the state kowtows to the church by persecuting its enemies, you have at least a partial theocracy.
  - nonrandomstring 3y ago
    How about - go on the political offensive to have *tech* people realize why they should care about things like this Because seriously, if we had a coherent, coordinated (unionised?) consensus about reasonable limits on the use of technology then a widespread refusal to implement technological tyranny would be highly effective. The worry that it "only takes a few defectors who will sell out for the money" is valid, but in reality I don't think things would be workable if 60%-80% of capable engineers simply wouldn't build, test, maintain or work with proscribed "fascist technologies".
    - FredPret 3y ago
      I won't join a union, and neither would most other engineers; but I love the idea of a professional body with some ideals and standards.
      - nonrandomstring 3y ago
        In Britain there is the BCS [0] Without advocating for them I'll just say that I came to this forum a little over a year ago with the intention of researching ethics and development. As I near writing some conclusions I feel they're one of the few organisations I see consistently putting emphasis on ethics and I am thinking of joining for that reason. Something along the lines of a Hippocratic Oath is needed. Notwithstanding the complexities of intent, misuse and side-effects I increasingly think it is possible for hackers to consistently adopt a "I will do no harm to others and society" credo. Sometimes just making it plain to an employer that you belong to a professional body whose ethics code would prohibit you from working on unconscionable tech is powerful - not least that it would afford you some protections under employment law if they threaten to fire you. At least that applies in other areas of medicine and engineering. [0] https://www.bcs.org/ https://www.bcs.org/
- irusensei 3y ago
  "They" are literally being paid for trying to win while you need to stop what you are doing and sacrifice time, mental and financial resources to perform activism. There is something really wrong about it doesn't?
  - permo-w 3y ago
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/7y9mv9/the_iras_warning_to_thatcher_after_they_narrowly/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/7y9mv9/the_iras_wa...
rad_gruchalski 3y ago
Your program has a bug. await createNextCrisis().then… is the correct logic here.
raxxorraxor 3y ago
Please fix: remove unnecessary reference to crisis when introducing unpopular legislation. Nature of crisis irrelevant.
petre 3y ago
No need to await next crisis. They are paying for more targeted propaganda with public money: https://www.euractiv.com/section/law-enforcement/news/eu-commissions-microtargeting-to-promote-law-on-child-abuse-under-scrutiny/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/law-enforcement/news/eu-com... Of course, if you're pro privacy, eurosceptic or Christian, you won't be targeted.

ajsnigrutin 3y ago

Yep, we have to "win" (or postpone in this case) every goddamn time, and they have to "win" only once for the thing to get signed and stamped.

FredPret 3y ago
Three ways we win forever: - out-innovate the authoritarians somehow - go on the political offensive to have non-tech people realize why they should care about things like this - establish an entire new model for society somewhere, like how personal freedom maximalists left the then-monarchical/theocratic Europe for the new world long ago
- vaylian 3y ago
  There is a deadline which is the end of the term of the current european commission (next year after the elections).If the new commission doesn't want to take this law any further, it will be dropped.
  - walterbell 3y ago
    How are new commission members (s)elected?
    - vaylian 3y ago
      see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission#Appointment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission#Appointmen... Each country sends candidates which then have to be approved by the european parliament.
    - denton-scratch 3y ago
      Each country gets one or two commissioners. They are appointed by their respective national governments, subject to approval by the EU Parliament (but rejection is as rare as rocking-horse shit). Basically, commissioners are usually former senior politicians who can no longer get elected, because they've been disgraced in some way or other. It's a sinecure. It's almost impossible to dismiss them; the EU Parliament only has the power to dismiss the entire commission. That sounds like a nuclear option that could never be used; but is has been done, exactly once. It was over corruption; the parliament decided that essentially every commissioner was crooked.
      - matthewdgreen 3y ago
        As I understand it, the Parliament only gets a vote on the Commission President. The other 26 are selected by the Council of Ministers, without Parliamentary oversight.
        CrisMystik 3y ago
        > The other 26 are selected by the Council of Ministers, without Parliamentary oversight. No, after the European Parliament has approved the proposed President of the European Commission and the Council has chosen the other 26 commissioners, the Commission as a whole is subject to another vote of confidence by the European Parliament.
  - FredPret 3y ago
    It's a global trend though - consistent power-grabs
  - g-b-r 3y ago
    The new commission will be elected by either the same current coalition or far-right authoritarian parties...
- andrepd 3y ago
  >like how personal freedom maximalists left the then-monarchical/theocratic Europe for the new world long ago Man someone needs to pick a history book asap x)
  - FredPret 3y ago
    Point out your objections, this isn't reddit.
    - andrepd 3y ago
      The objection is that the people who left Europe for the new world weren't "freedom maximalists escaping theocracies"
      - FredPret 3y ago
        Well, pick up a history book, and you'll see lots of people escaped religious persecution in Europe. They wanted to practice their religion / lack thereof, thus were freedom-seeking. They were willing to brave an Atlantic crossing in small wooden ships and build brand-new lives rather than put up with curtailed freedoms; hence "maximalists". And when you mix church and state, or when the state kowtows to the church by persecuting its enemies, you have at least a partial theocracy.
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  How about - go on the political offensive to have *tech* people realize why they should care about things like this Because seriously, if we had a coherent, coordinated (unionised?) consensus about reasonable limits on the use of technology then a widespread refusal to implement technological tyranny would be highly effective. The worry that it "only takes a few defectors who will sell out for the money" is valid, but in reality I don't think things would be workable if 60%-80% of capable engineers simply wouldn't build, test, maintain or work with proscribed "fascist technologies".
  - FredPret 3y ago
    I won't join a union, and neither would most other engineers; but I love the idea of a professional body with some ideals and standards.
    - nonrandomstring 3y ago
      In Britain there is the BCS [0] Without advocating for them I'll just say that I came to this forum a little over a year ago with the intention of researching ethics and development. As I near writing some conclusions I feel they're one of the few organisations I see consistently putting emphasis on ethics and I am thinking of joining for that reason. Something along the lines of a Hippocratic Oath is needed. Notwithstanding the complexities of intent, misuse and side-effects I increasingly think it is possible for hackers to consistently adopt a "I will do no harm to others and society" credo. Sometimes just making it plain to an employer that you belong to a professional body whose ethics code would prohibit you from working on unconscionable tech is powerful - not least that it would afford you some protections under employment law if they threaten to fire you. At least that applies in other areas of medicine and engineering. [0] https://www.bcs.org/ https://www.bcs.org/
irusensei 3y ago
"They" are literally being paid for trying to win while you need to stop what you are doing and sacrifice time, mental and financial resources to perform activism. There is something really wrong about it doesn't?
- permo-w 3y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/7y9mv9/the_iras_warning_to_thatcher_after_they_narrowly/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/7y9mv9/the_iras_wa...

rad_gruchalski 3y ago

Your program has a bug. await createNextCrisis().then… is the correct logic here.

raxxorraxor 3y ago

Please fix: remove unnecessary reference to crisis when introducing unpopular legislation. Nature of crisis irrelevant.

petre 3y ago

No need to await next crisis. They are paying for more targeted propaganda with public money: https://www.euractiv.com/section/law-enforcement/news/eu-commissions-microtargeting-to-promote-law-on-child-abuse-under-scrutiny/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/law-enforcement/news/eu-com... Of course, if you're pro privacy, eurosceptic or Christian, you won't be targeted.