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How do y'all get excited for EVs? I know my next car will need to be an EV, but I just can't get excited for any of them. They all go fast in a straight line,

by zwaps 3y ago

How do y'all get excited for EVs? I know my next car will need to be an EV, but I just can't get excited for any of them. They all go fast in a straight line, are heavy and look like overweight SUV style. Otherwise, they seem eeringly similar. Any sort of sound and feel is "generated". I don't want to get a non-EV vehicle anymore, but the thought of shelling out money for one of these uniform soapboxes... I know I can just get the cheapest one because in terms of motors etc. it's all more or less the same. But then, I'd rather get somehow excited for a product I am going to buy.

kccqzy 3y ago
This is a substance-less comment. How are the multitude of EVs on the market similar? If you really think so, do you also think all the cars (ICEs included) look eerily similar? If you answer yes to that as well, then I can empathize with you: these days cars do look quite similar[0] and I found that not everyone will notice the differences. But that's more reflective of the person than the car. (For example ask an average person to describe the differences between bicycles on the market and they likely can't either.) [0]: https://ade3.medium.com/driving-conformity-49ffb2b1ff9f https://ade3.medium.com/driving-conformity-49ffb2b1ff9f
- zwaps 3y ago
  I agree with you and this sort of SUV look is precisely the one I don't like. I guess my taste is just cursed.
- Sophistifunk 3y ago
  GP is right, but it's all cars that have become extermely samey. If you're spending Ferrari money your options have never been better, but if you're a "car person" what's for sale right now to the middle class is incredibly depressing, with the exceptions of the 86 and the Z. Several manufacturers don't even make a sedan any more.
  - spiderice 3y ago
    > GP is right, but it's all cars that have become extermely samey If this is the case then I wouldn't call GP "right", because their complaint is very misleading.
SkyPuncher 3y ago
With all due respect, it’s not like there’s that much creativity in the ICE market, either. At least, stock that is.
Kon5ole 3y ago
>How do y'all get excited for EVs? For me it's the reaction to input. At normal traffic speeds, most modern EV's will react like when you pop the clutch in a high-revving sports car. It does so silently, in any situation, every time. If you try to drive as quickly in a fossil car, anyone around you will wonder who the idiot making all the noise is, so in practice you don't do it even if you have a car that could. Since I basically never drive longer than a battery range I haven't had to stop anywhere to "refuel" in the past couple of years, which is also nice. That said - I completely agree about the design and visuals. At the moment it's a choice between "big boring" or "bigger boring", but I expect that to change once the market settles. It's a land grab at the moment.
- akira2501 3y ago
  So for you it's the way that they can be more dangerous in less obvious ways to other vehicles and pedestrians in shared traffic areas?
  - Kon5ole 3y ago
    Quite the opposite, a car that reacts more quickly to driver input is obviously less dangerous, not more. If you are driving in such a way that the noise and delayed response from your car increases safety for others you should not be driving anything. ;-)
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      I don't see the need for this. Obviously a silent car, even if driven well, provides fewer cues to its existence than a car that makes some noise. And a silent car driven badly provides basically the same lack of cues. At least an ICE car driven badly is loud.
      - rootusrootus 3y ago
        Excluding modified vehicles, I rarely see an EV that is quieter than an ICEV. It's kind of annoying, really -- I was so ready for a quieter world, but the gov't thinks we need more noise.
sgt 3y ago
Drive a Tesla. That'll make you excited and probably lose all interest in ICE cars. Happened to me!
akira2501 3y ago
> Otherwise, they seem eeringly similar. Any sort of sound and feel is "generated". They all have the same problem. The battery technology isn't particularly great so to get any appreciable range they have to be made with certain materials and with certain concessions. Wind is apparently a big factor in route planning so that also impacts the exterior design criteria as well. > I don't want to get a non-EV vehicle anymore For those who use their vehicles to do repair and other types of field or farm work the verdict is not at all clear. I'd also prefer Fire, Ambulance and Police to stay on gasoline and diesel for probably the next 25 to 50 years, given the abysmal rate of infrastructure development that happens in this country. > But then, I'd rather get somehow excited for a product I am going to buy. Pretend I made a new magic gasoline that pollutes, but does so "entirely outside the environment." It works with all actual gasoline vehicles without modification. Which one on the market right now would you want to drive?
- pjc50 3y ago
  > a new magic gasoline that pollutes, but does so "entirely outside the environment." I don't understand what this could possibly mean? Pollution is by definition damage to the environment. I think if you had a magic nonpolluting fuel that would be a massive hit; that's what people are trying to fake with hydrogen and LPG/CNG fuel ideas, which are less polluting but still release some CO2.
  - akira2501 3y ago
    It's a reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
- vegardx 3y ago
  > Wind is apparently a big factor in route planning so that also impacts the exterior design criteria as well. Wind is a big factor for all vehicles. The big difference is that combustion engines need a lot of cooling, so there's not that much that can be done in regards to aerodynamics on that front. They still experience the same losses with headwind, arguably even more. > For those who use their vehicles to do repair and other types of field or farm work the verdict is not at all clear. Then don't get a battery-electric vehicle? There are plenty of completely reasonable cases where currently battery-electric vehicles isn't the solution. But the vast vast vast majority of trucks on the road has never had anything in their truck bed that wouldn't fit inside a Fiat Punto. > I'd also prefer Fire, Ambulance and Police to stay on gasoline and diesel for probably the next 25 to 50 years, given the abysmal rate of infrastructure development that happens in this country. I mean - sure? I imagine the people actually driving these vehicles are more than capable of choosing something that gets the job done. How you're able to look 25-50 years into the future is beyond me.
crote 3y ago
It's a car. It's a box on wheels which gets me from point A to point B. I get about as excited about it as I get about my kitchen table. Mainstream cars, be it either EV or ICE, haven't been exciting for decades. They all have the same boring SUV / crossover look these days, wasting a ton of space without actually having significant carrying capacity. I judge modern cars by 1) whether I can physically fit in them, and 2) how badly they screwed up the controls. "Exciting" just isn't a thing these days.
- dagw 3y ago
  I get about as excited about it as I get about my kitchen table Do you at least accept that some people do in fact get very excited about kitchen tables and spend a lot of time reading about the latest table designs and finding the perfect table?
  - bluGill 3y ago
    I have my own weird things I get excited about that I don't expect you to understand.
askl 3y ago
Why do you want to get excited about it? It's just a tool that you have to use to get from place to place.
bartvk 3y ago
Can't you mod it? You can wrap it for more color options, but if you're someone who likes to travel, then there are pretty cool 3rd party camping options available, notably for Tesla.
hyperbovine 3y ago
> How do y'all get excited for EVs? Never having to buy gas again? I mean really…
- throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
  You just have to sit around and buy electricity instead, that's much better?
  - NegativeK 3y ago
    If you have charging at home, it's faster (in terms of active involvement) and it's cheaper. If you have solar, it's _way_ cheaper. Obviously road trips take longer, but those are a very small portion of my driving. For me, it's way better.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Electric doesn't go stale. I often go several months without driving my truck (but I've never been able to find a way to rent one - sure you can rent a truck shaped object, but you can't use it for hauling which is the whole reason I own a truck)
Tempest1981 3y ago
There seems to be a lot of innovation around interiors -- massive instrument panels, UI that is cool or bizarre, cameras and safety features.
heresie-dabord 3y ago
> I'd rather get somehow excited for a product I am going to buy. Look beyond marketing for the features that are important. You will want to have Level 2 charging at home, where most of your charging will be done. Get excited about charging at home and saving a significant amount of money for transportation. Get excited about not being subject to petrol costs and queuing for fuel. Get excited about not having to worry about all the problems with the combustion system of an ICE. Apart from the savings and convenience, get excited about excellent acceleration and one-pedal driving (i.e. the vehicle brakes by spinning the electric motor in reverse).
rootusrootus 3y ago
> How do y'all get excited for EVs? This is where we are headed. We've reached the point where EVs outperform ICEVs in all metrics, and buying an ICEV has to be justified with nostalgia. > these uniform soapboxes This is almost all ICEVs as well. And just like you can get a fun ICEV, you can get a fun EV too.
- bluGill 3y ago
  EVs don't outperform in the total cost of ownership yet. Sure if you buy new cars they do, but you can't buy a 7 year old EV for a few thousand and and drive it 100k more miles. I 5-10 years that will change, but right now EVs are mostly for people who can afford a new one.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    I'd say that's open to interpretation. To find any half decent ICEV for "a few thousand" you have to go back more than 7 years. Using 2017 as an example, a Bolt is pretty comparable to a similar ICEV in price (both are overpriced IMO, but the market has been a bit insane the last year or so) and it would handily win in TCO as well.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      If you can find a used EV at all. Sure if you get lucky enough to find one on the used market they are a great deal. However if like most people you are not willing to wait for one to show up things are more difficult. It doesn't take many people realized the TCO of a EV to dry up what little market there is - or raise prices.
audunw 3y ago
> How do y'all get excited for EVs? By owning one. Hard not to after you start driving them for a while. > Any sort of sound and feel is "generated". The sounds of ICE vehicles are also generally "engineered". Sure, it all comes from the engine, but the sounds you hear have been carefully tailored. If you drive a few different EVs for a while you'll notice that they have their own sound and feel, even the ones that don't make any artificial sound. It's a lot more subtle than ICE vehicles. But that's a good thing. I'd rather listen to my music than the engine. Still, you generally get enough sound and feel that ... when taken together with the instant response and one-pedal driving ... you can really feel like you're "one" with the vehicle. An ICE feel like you're trying to give kind of suggestions for how the car should drive. Like riding a horse I guess. It goes where you want but also has a bit of a will of its own. An EV feels more like an extension of your body. EVs will generally have a speaker projecting some sound forward when driving slowly to alert pedestrians. I've never thought of that sound as important to me as a driver. > for one of these uniform soapboxes Have you tried the Ioniq 5? Kia EV 6? Honda e? > I know I can just get the cheapest one because in terms of motors etc. it's all more or less the same. Not really. Going for AWD on EVs has a huge impact for instance. How the motors are controlled is also important. When done right, you can get the feeling that EVs are absolutely glued to the road no matter how hard you push it. But sure, even the Kia Soul EV 2015 we've had drives better than most ICE vehicles I've driven. Even the cheapest motor will be responsive. Nothing wrong with the cheapest options, and they'll be reliable too. But you can get so much more out of the motors with the right engineering. The ultimate expression of this is Rimac Nevara. How can you not get excited for that kind of vehicle and what it could mean for the EVs of the future?
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  > Still, you generally get enough sound and feel that ... when taken together with the instant response and one-pedal driving ... you can really feel like you're "one" with the vehicle. An ICE feel like you're trying to give kind of suggestions for how the car should drive. Like riding a horse I guess. It goes where you want but also has a bit of a will of its own. An EV feels more like an extension of your body. I definitely get that. But it's also something you see in higher end ICEs. I went with my Audi RS 5 because it felt very much connected to the driving experience. Responsive, feedback, etc. Not a fair comparison, I realize, but since I've spent a lot more time driving a Tesla 3 than an S, though I have driven both repeatedly, but I'd say I felt more connected to the RS 5 than the TM3.

by zwaps 3y ago

kccqzy 3y ago

This is a substance-less comment. How are the multitude of EVs on the market similar? If you really think so, do you also think all the cars (ICEs included) look eerily similar? If you answer yes to that as well, then I can empathize with you: these days cars do look quite similar[0] and I found that not everyone will notice the differences. But that's more reflective of the person than the car. (For example ask an average person to describe the differences between bicycles on the market and they likely can't either.) [0]: https://ade3.medium.com/driving-conformity-49ffb2b1ff9f https://ade3.medium.com/driving-conformity-49ffb2b1ff9f

zwaps 3y ago
I agree with you and this sort of SUV look is precisely the one I don't like. I guess my taste is just cursed.
Sophistifunk 3y ago
GP is right, but it's all cars that have become extermely samey. If you're spending Ferrari money your options have never been better, but if you're a "car person" what's for sale right now to the middle class is incredibly depressing, with the exceptions of the 86 and the Z. Several manufacturers don't even make a sedan any more.
- spiderice 3y ago
  > GP is right, but it's all cars that have become extermely samey If this is the case then I wouldn't call GP "right", because their complaint is very misleading.

SkyPuncher 3y ago

With all due respect, it’s not like there’s that much creativity in the ICE market, either. At least, stock that is.

Kon5ole 3y ago

>How do y'all get excited for EVs? For me it's the reaction to input. At normal traffic speeds, most modern EV's will react like when you pop the clutch in a high-revving sports car. It does so silently, in any situation, every time. If you try to drive as quickly in a fossil car, anyone around you will wonder who the idiot making all the noise is, so in practice you don't do it even if you have a car that could. Since I basically never drive longer than a battery range I haven't had to stop anywhere to "refuel" in the past couple of years, which is also nice. That said - I completely agree about the design and visuals. At the moment it's a choice between "big boring" or "bigger boring", but I expect that to change once the market settles. It's a land grab at the moment.

akira2501 3y ago
So for you it's the way that they can be more dangerous in less obvious ways to other vehicles and pedestrians in shared traffic areas?
- Kon5ole 3y ago
  Quite the opposite, a car that reacts more quickly to driver input is obviously less dangerous, not more. If you are driving in such a way that the noise and delayed response from your car increases safety for others you should not be driving anything. ;-)
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    I don't see the need for this. Obviously a silent car, even if driven well, provides fewer cues to its existence than a car that makes some noise. And a silent car driven badly provides basically the same lack of cues. At least an ICE car driven badly is loud.
    - rootusrootus 3y ago
      Excluding modified vehicles, I rarely see an EV that is quieter than an ICEV. It's kind of annoying, really -- I was so ready for a quieter world, but the gov't thinks we need more noise.

sgt 3y ago

Drive a Tesla. That'll make you excited and probably lose all interest in ICE cars. Happened to me!

akira2501 3y ago

> Otherwise, they seem eeringly similar. Any sort of sound and feel is "generated". They all have the same problem. The battery technology isn't particularly great so to get any appreciable range they have to be made with certain materials and with certain concessions. Wind is apparently a big factor in route planning so that also impacts the exterior design criteria as well. > I don't want to get a non-EV vehicle anymore For those who use their vehicles to do repair and other types of field or farm work the verdict is not at all clear. I'd also prefer Fire, Ambulance and Police to stay on gasoline and diesel for probably the next 25 to 50 years, given the abysmal rate of infrastructure development that happens in this country. > But then, I'd rather get somehow excited for a product I am going to buy. Pretend I made a new magic gasoline that pollutes, but does so "entirely outside the environment." It works with all actual gasoline vehicles without modification. Which one on the market right now would you want to drive?

pjc50 3y ago
> a new magic gasoline that pollutes, but does so "entirely outside the environment." I don't understand what this could possibly mean? Pollution is by definition damage to the environment. I think if you had a magic nonpolluting fuel that would be a massive hit; that's what people are trying to fake with hydrogen and LPG/CNG fuel ideas, which are less polluting but still release some CO2.
- akira2501 3y ago
  It's a reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
vegardx 3y ago
> Wind is apparently a big factor in route planning so that also impacts the exterior design criteria as well. Wind is a big factor for all vehicles. The big difference is that combustion engines need a lot of cooling, so there's not that much that can be done in regards to aerodynamics on that front. They still experience the same losses with headwind, arguably even more. > For those who use their vehicles to do repair and other types of field or farm work the verdict is not at all clear. Then don't get a battery-electric vehicle? There are plenty of completely reasonable cases where currently battery-electric vehicles isn't the solution. But the vast vast vast majority of trucks on the road has never had anything in their truck bed that wouldn't fit inside a Fiat Punto. > I'd also prefer Fire, Ambulance and Police to stay on gasoline and diesel for probably the next 25 to 50 years, given the abysmal rate of infrastructure development that happens in this country. I mean - sure? I imagine the people actually driving these vehicles are more than capable of choosing something that gets the job done. How you're able to look 25-50 years into the future is beyond me.

crote 3y ago

It's a car. It's a box on wheels which gets me from point A to point B. I get about as excited about it as I get about my kitchen table. Mainstream cars, be it either EV or ICE, haven't been exciting for decades. They all have the same boring SUV / crossover look these days, wasting a ton of space without actually having significant carrying capacity. I judge modern cars by 1) whether I can physically fit in them, and 2) how badly they screwed up the controls. "Exciting" just isn't a thing these days.

dagw 3y ago
I get about as excited about it as I get about my kitchen table Do you at least accept that some people do in fact get very excited about kitchen tables and spend a lot of time reading about the latest table designs and finding the perfect table?
- bluGill 3y ago
  I have my own weird things I get excited about that I don't expect you to understand.

askl 3y ago

Why do you want to get excited about it? It's just a tool that you have to use to get from place to place.

bartvk 3y ago

Can't you mod it? You can wrap it for more color options, but if you're someone who likes to travel, then there are pretty cool 3rd party camping options available, notably for Tesla.

hyperbovine 3y ago

> How do y'all get excited for EVs? Never having to buy gas again? I mean really…

throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
You just have to sit around and buy electricity instead, that's much better?
- NegativeK 3y ago
  If you have charging at home, it's faster (in terms of active involvement) and it's cheaper. If you have solar, it's _way_ cheaper. Obviously road trips take longer, but those are a very small portion of my driving. For me, it's way better.
- bluGill 3y ago
  Electric doesn't go stale. I often go several months without driving my truck (but I've never been able to find a way to rent one - sure you can rent a truck shaped object, but you can't use it for hauling which is the whole reason I own a truck)

Tempest1981 3y ago

There seems to be a lot of innovation around interiors -- massive instrument panels, UI that is cool or bizarre, cameras and safety features.

heresie-dabord 3y ago

> I'd rather get somehow excited for a product I am going to buy. Look beyond marketing for the features that are important. You will want to have Level 2 charging at home, where most of your charging will be done. Get excited about charging at home and saving a significant amount of money for transportation. Get excited about not being subject to petrol costs and queuing for fuel. Get excited about not having to worry about all the problems with the combustion system of an ICE. Apart from the savings and convenience, get excited about excellent acceleration and one-pedal driving (i.e. the vehicle brakes by spinning the electric motor in reverse).

rootusrootus 3y ago

> How do y'all get excited for EVs? This is where we are headed. We've reached the point where EVs outperform ICEVs in all metrics, and buying an ICEV has to be justified with nostalgia. > these uniform soapboxes This is almost all ICEVs as well. And just like you can get a fun ICEV, you can get a fun EV too.

bluGill 3y ago
EVs don't outperform in the total cost of ownership yet. Sure if you buy new cars they do, but you can't buy a 7 year old EV for a few thousand and and drive it 100k more miles. I 5-10 years that will change, but right now EVs are mostly for people who can afford a new one.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  I'd say that's open to interpretation. To find any half decent ICEV for "a few thousand" you have to go back more than 7 years. Using 2017 as an example, a Bolt is pretty comparable to a similar ICEV in price (both are overpriced IMO, but the market has been a bit insane the last year or so) and it would handily win in TCO as well.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    If you can find a used EV at all. Sure if you get lucky enough to find one on the used market they are a great deal. However if like most people you are not willing to wait for one to show up things are more difficult. It doesn't take many people realized the TCO of a EV to dry up what little market there is - or raise prices.

audunw 3y ago

> How do y'all get excited for EVs? By owning one. Hard not to after you start driving them for a while. > Any sort of sound and feel is "generated". The sounds of ICE vehicles are also generally "engineered". Sure, it all comes from the engine, but the sounds you hear have been carefully tailored. If you drive a few different EVs for a while you'll notice that they have their own sound and feel, even the ones that don't make any artificial sound. It's a lot more subtle than ICE vehicles. But that's a good thing. I'd rather listen to my music than the engine. Still, you generally get enough sound and feel that ... when taken together with the instant response and one-pedal driving ... you can really feel like you're "one" with the vehicle. An ICE feel like you're trying to give kind of suggestions for how the car should drive. Like riding a horse I guess. It goes where you want but also has a bit of a will of its own. An EV feels more like an extension of your body. EVs will generally have a speaker projecting some sound forward when driving slowly to alert pedestrians. I've never thought of that sound as important to me as a driver. > for one of these uniform soapboxes Have you tried the Ioniq 5? Kia EV 6? Honda e? > I know I can just get the cheapest one because in terms of motors etc. it's all more or less the same. Not really. Going for AWD on EVs has a huge impact for instance. How the motors are controlled is also important. When done right, you can get the feeling that EVs are absolutely glued to the road no matter how hard you push it. But sure, even the Kia Soul EV 2015 we've had drives better than most ICE vehicles I've driven. Even the cheapest motor will be responsive. Nothing wrong with the cheapest options, and they'll be reliable too. But you can get so much more out of the motors with the right engineering. The ultimate expression of this is Rimac Nevara. How can you not get excited for that kind of vehicle and what it could mean for the EVs of the future?

FireBeyond 3y ago
> Still, you generally get enough sound and feel that ... when taken together with the instant response and one-pedal driving ... you can really feel like you're "one" with the vehicle. An ICE feel like you're trying to give kind of suggestions for how the car should drive. Like riding a horse I guess. It goes where you want but also has a bit of a will of its own. An EV feels more like an extension of your body. I definitely get that. But it's also something you see in higher end ICEs. I went with my Audi RS 5 because it felt very much connected to the driving experience. Responsive, feedback, etc. Not a fair comparison, I realize, but since I've spent a lot more time driving a Tesla 3 than an S, though I have driven both repeatedly, but I'd say I felt more connected to the RS 5 than the TM3.