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I think that's it in a nutshell. Divorce is also more common for selfish and self-centered people, and I would argue that those traits do not make for good par

I think that's it in a nutshell. Divorce is also more common for selfish and self-centered people, and I would argue that those traits do not make for good parents. (which is not to say that a good person should remain married to such a spouse --- arguably the only thing worse than a good divorce is a bad marriage) Ages ago, I worked at a school for boys, and one could pretty much map negative trats of the parents to corresponding unsocial behaviours on the part of the child.

ryandrake 3y ago
> Ages ago, I worked at a school for boys, and one could pretty much map negative trats of the parents to corresponding unsocial behaviours on the part of the child. My parents were both teachers, and it was a very commonly held belief among teachers that you could predict a kid's academic outcome reasonably well by simply learning about their parent(s) behaviors and home life. Kids' academic achievement has little to do with the quality of schools, quality of teachers, wealth or poverty of the area, but has everything to do with the positive and negative traits of their parents.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  I strongly agree with this, but it is an inconvenient truth because everyone wants to search out good policy in the domain space to improve outcomes. That is unfortunately extremely challenging, as you can't fix broken parents. You end up having to design systems to clean up the mess after kids turn into adults, because there are limited mechanisms to encourage better behavior from suboptimal parents. (did a sustained stint as a volunteer guardian ad litem [1] and occasionally provide advice to others performing the work) [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/guardian_ad_litem https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/guardian_ad_litem
  - marcosdumay 3y ago
    > but it is an inconvenient truth because everyone wants to search out good policy in the domain space to improve outcomes Just because something defines 90% of the result, it doesn't mean you must just give-up and not work on that remaining 10%. The same applies to the luck vs. hard work problem people keep missing the point about.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      Never said to give up, but be realistic about the effort to outcome improvement ratio. Universal school lunches are an easy win [1], for example. With time and resources having limits, target what provides the most value. Take care of kids until they reach escape velocity. [1] https://www.nycfoodpolicy.org/states-that-have-passed-universal-free-school-meals/ https://www.nycfoodpolicy.org/states-that-have-passed-univer...
  - tstrimple 3y ago
    So maybe the path to success for a school is to game the rating system long enough to become a magnet school, then parents who care and can afford to will relocate to be in your school district. Now that the "good" parents have come to you, you're a "good school"!

ryandrake 3y ago

> Ages ago, I worked at a school for boys, and one could pretty much map negative trats of the parents to corresponding unsocial behaviours on the part of the child. My parents were both teachers, and it was a very commonly held belief among teachers that you could predict a kid's academic outcome reasonably well by simply learning about their parent(s) behaviors and home life. Kids' academic achievement has little to do with the quality of schools, quality of teachers, wealth or poverty of the area, but has everything to do with the positive and negative traits of their parents.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
I strongly agree with this, but it is an inconvenient truth because everyone wants to search out good policy in the domain space to improve outcomes. That is unfortunately extremely challenging, as you can't fix broken parents. You end up having to design systems to clean up the mess after kids turn into adults, because there are limited mechanisms to encourage better behavior from suboptimal parents. (did a sustained stint as a volunteer guardian ad litem [1] and occasionally provide advice to others performing the work) [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/guardian_ad_litem https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/guardian_ad_litem
- marcosdumay 3y ago
  > but it is an inconvenient truth because everyone wants to search out good policy in the domain space to improve outcomes Just because something defines 90% of the result, it doesn't mean you must just give-up and not work on that remaining 10%. The same applies to the luck vs. hard work problem people keep missing the point about.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Never said to give up, but be realistic about the effort to outcome improvement ratio. Universal school lunches are an easy win [1], for example. With time and resources having limits, target what provides the most value. Take care of kids until they reach escape velocity. [1] https://www.nycfoodpolicy.org/states-that-have-passed-universal-free-school-meals/ https://www.nycfoodpolicy.org/states-that-have-passed-univer...
- tstrimple 3y ago
  So maybe the path to success for a school is to game the rating system long enough to become a magnet school, then parents who care and can afford to will relocate to be in your school district. Now that the "good" parents have come to you, you're a "good school"!