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> Kearney says she's not advocating that children live in a household filled with marital tension or where parents are unhappy or mistreating each other. Then

by kibwen 3y ago

> Kearney says she's not advocating that children live in a household filled with marital tension or where parents are unhappy or mistreating each other. Then what is the proposed solution? Pointing out the problem is the easy part. But if you want more people to be married, and if they're currently choosing not to get married, then you need to either force them to get married against their will (institutionalized shotgun marriages) or incentivize them to get married by offering benefits to married couples. The former produces miserable, abusive marriages and traumatized children. And as for the latter, as a country we're already utterly incapable of allocating funding for the aid of childrearing--where's the guaranteed maternity/paternity leave? where's the socialized childcare?--so pardon me if I don't quite see that solution as politically feasible.

mhb 3y ago
A good first step would be to first remove economic disincentives such as tax penalties and reductions in benefits.
- hfuyf65 3y ago
  Or.. remove benefits.
  - wesselbindt 3y ago
    [flagged]
pierat 3y ago
> Then what is the proposed solution? Pointing out the problem is the easy part. This is not a position paper. This paper is a finding of fact. Demanding that they must advocate something is an anathema to proper science. And, saying that "pointing out the problem is the easy part" indicates to me you're not in the sciences. It's laughable, even.
- em-bee 3y ago
  solving problems is just as important as finding them. the parent comment may be unfair for dismissing the finding of a problem as the easy part, but they are absolutely right in asking how do we solve this. so let's be more constructive and explore possible solutions to this problem as well, and not just argue about the problem itself. i do agree that the political landscape in the US makes addressing this problem difficult. the only option i see is to develop grassroots support for this issue by changing peoples opinions on the need to support parenting and having children.
Spivak 3y ago
You don't get it, maternity leave and socialized childcare is the devil talking. The downfall of society is because the liberal agenda to brainwash our our women and kids, the former with feminism making them think they can do things other then be homemakers, and the latter because those families with working women have to send their kids to childcare where they're taught collectivism, normalized sexual deviancy, and to disrespect their parents. /s
- zpeti 3y ago
  Ok, this is one end of the sarcastic stereotype, but the other end is that: No one needs to take responsibility anymore, live life to the full, have sex with 200 people, take drugs and experiment, and eventually at 40 try and have a child with IVF because at that point that’s your only shot. If you don’t like who you had it with after 5 years, just leave them, it’s fine. Oh and then pass off your children’s moral social education to bad schools. That’s also not a good plan. Neither is the one you talked about, but society definitely needs to find a golden middle ground, because something is really bad right now. The progressive liberal path really doesn’t work in the long run.
- ndriscoll 3y ago
  People might not feel that way if you didn't belittle homemakers (or do we need movements to let people know they can do things other than be doctors/lawyers/whatever profession you view as high status?) A more equitable solution than socialized childcare that recognizes that homemaker is a valuable job that lots of women (50% of those with children) would prefer to do would be to increase the refundable child tax credit. Then you could use that money for hired childcare or to "hire yourself" as a caretaker according to your preference (obviously men could also be the homemaker if that's what the couple wants).
  - pixl97 3y ago
    At the end of the day I'd say even talking about homemakers doesn't matter as much as you think. People in general like the addition economic freedom from making more money. Even starting at WWII women started working in huge numbers in the US and that number has increased ever since. The sending the money back in tax credits barely works in a single income house because the otherside in the massive increase of available workers in the US is the massive inflation of assets. When one person works solely to afford a house, the other person can't take a break to have a child. Now add in the out of control costs of healthcare tied to your job no one in the younger generation is going to want to have a child.
shrimp_emoji 3y ago
The solution is to grow people in pods and raise them in barracks-creches. Our legacy biology will only continue to diverge from our environment over time.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Just rewatched the matrix, if we accomplish what you say, we are right on track to match the timeline of 2200.
tomjen3 3y ago
That adults grow up, realise that they now have a responsibility to each other and to their child. If that is not possible, then the solution is not to have children, which is a 100% fair choice.
- lazide 3y ago
  The people that have the most kids are exactly the ones who have difficulty managing this, in my experience. The ones who have no difficulty managing themselves often just opt out entirely.
mannyv 3y ago
You don't need a solution when you point out a problem. I've found this attitude in a lot of people. I think it's designed to shut down ideas that they don't like. At least that tends to happen. Describing a problem builds awareness. It's the first step to a solution. Insisting on a solution is just another way of ignoring a problem.
- foogazi 3y ago
  Agree - a problem without a solution is still a problem
  - lazide 3y ago
    True, but a problem with no solution is not a solvable problem either. And everything has problems.
briHass 3y ago
The other option, which was the one traditionally used, is strong social pressure favoring marriage and stigmas against divorce. We can recognize that it's an unfortunate reality that will occur, while still not normalizing or glorifying it.
- pixl97 3y ago
  I think this is the incorrect other option. The other option we are seeing now is women in general will greatly reduce or stop having children. Couple this in with two members of a family required to work to afford housing and healthcare the entire entire traditionalist appeal is going to fall apart due to complete unworkability.
huytersd 3y ago
Or you just take away the reason most men don’t want to get married (atleast without a prenup). Get rid of alimony, no child support if the father declines when the mother is pregnant before 3 months, get rid of no fault divorce, cheating by the dependent spouse means that spouse automatically forfeits their share of the money.
Racing0461 3y ago
I think at the very least we should end all welfare causing perverse inventives in the family and see where the system settles. But im afraid pandora's box has been opened and i don't see a way to fix this that doesn't involve alot of people losing rights/individualism (which im opposed too).
meheleventyone 3y ago
Even the problem is misidentified. Marriage is only a proxy for the things that are important. That’s important to identifying a solution as you get boneheaded solutions like ‘give men more power over women so they can’t leave marriages’. Rather than the entirely sensible ones you mention.
konschubert 3y ago
First step is to realise that it's not marriage itself that's helping the kids. The marriage is just the symptom of something else.

by kibwen 3y ago

mhb 3y ago

A good first step would be to first remove economic disincentives such as tax penalties and reductions in benefits.

hfuyf65 3y ago
Or.. remove benefits.
- wesselbindt 3y ago
  [flagged]

pierat 3y ago

> Then what is the proposed solution? Pointing out the problem is the easy part. This is not a position paper. This paper is a finding of fact. Demanding that they must advocate something is an anathema to proper science. And, saying that "pointing out the problem is the easy part" indicates to me you're not in the sciences. It's laughable, even.

em-bee 3y ago
solving problems is just as important as finding them. the parent comment may be unfair for dismissing the finding of a problem as the easy part, but they are absolutely right in asking how do we solve this. so let's be more constructive and explore possible solutions to this problem as well, and not just argue about the problem itself. i do agree that the political landscape in the US makes addressing this problem difficult. the only option i see is to develop grassroots support for this issue by changing peoples opinions on the need to support parenting and having children.

Spivak 3y ago

You don't get it, maternity leave and socialized childcare is the devil talking. The downfall of society is because the liberal agenda to brainwash our our women and kids, the former with feminism making them think they can do things other then be homemakers, and the latter because those families with working women have to send their kids to childcare where they're taught collectivism, normalized sexual deviancy, and to disrespect their parents. /s

zpeti 3y ago
Ok, this is one end of the sarcastic stereotype, but the other end is that: No one needs to take responsibility anymore, live life to the full, have sex with 200 people, take drugs and experiment, and eventually at 40 try and have a child with IVF because at that point that’s your only shot. If you don’t like who you had it with after 5 years, just leave them, it’s fine. Oh and then pass off your children’s moral social education to bad schools. That’s also not a good plan. Neither is the one you talked about, but society definitely needs to find a golden middle ground, because something is really bad right now. The progressive liberal path really doesn’t work in the long run.
ndriscoll 3y ago
People might not feel that way if you didn't belittle homemakers (or do we need movements to let people know they can do things other than be doctors/lawyers/whatever profession you view as high status?) A more equitable solution than socialized childcare that recognizes that homemaker is a valuable job that lots of women (50% of those with children) would prefer to do would be to increase the refundable child tax credit. Then you could use that money for hired childcare or to "hire yourself" as a caretaker according to your preference (obviously men could also be the homemaker if that's what the couple wants).
- pixl97 3y ago
  At the end of the day I'd say even talking about homemakers doesn't matter as much as you think. People in general like the addition economic freedom from making more money. Even starting at WWII women started working in huge numbers in the US and that number has increased ever since. The sending the money back in tax credits barely works in a single income house because the otherside in the massive increase of available workers in the US is the massive inflation of assets. When one person works solely to afford a house, the other person can't take a break to have a child. Now add in the out of control costs of healthcare tied to your job no one in the younger generation is going to want to have a child.

shrimp_emoji 3y ago

The solution is to grow people in pods and raise them in barracks-creches. Our legacy biology will only continue to diverge from our environment over time.

mensetmanusman 3y ago
Just rewatched the matrix, if we accomplish what you say, we are right on track to match the timeline of 2200.

tomjen3 3y ago

That adults grow up, realise that they now have a responsibility to each other and to their child. If that is not possible, then the solution is not to have children, which is a 100% fair choice.

lazide 3y ago
The people that have the most kids are exactly the ones who have difficulty managing this, in my experience. The ones who have no difficulty managing themselves often just opt out entirely.

mannyv 3y ago

You don't need a solution when you point out a problem. I've found this attitude in a lot of people. I think it's designed to shut down ideas that they don't like. At least that tends to happen. Describing a problem builds awareness. It's the first step to a solution. Insisting on a solution is just another way of ignoring a problem.

foogazi 3y ago
Agree - a problem without a solution is still a problem
- lazide 3y ago
  True, but a problem with no solution is not a solvable problem either. And everything has problems.

briHass 3y ago

The other option, which was the one traditionally used, is strong social pressure favoring marriage and stigmas against divorce. We can recognize that it's an unfortunate reality that will occur, while still not normalizing or glorifying it.

pixl97 3y ago
I think this is the incorrect other option. The other option we are seeing now is women in general will greatly reduce or stop having children. Couple this in with two members of a family required to work to afford housing and healthcare the entire entire traditionalist appeal is going to fall apart due to complete unworkability.

huytersd 3y ago

Or you just take away the reason most men don’t want to get married (atleast without a prenup). Get rid of alimony, no child support if the father declines when the mother is pregnant before 3 months, get rid of no fault divorce, cheating by the dependent spouse means that spouse automatically forfeits their share of the money.

Racing0461 3y ago

I think at the very least we should end all welfare causing perverse inventives in the family and see where the system settles. But im afraid pandora's box has been opened and i don't see a way to fix this that doesn't involve alot of people losing rights/individualism (which im opposed too).

meheleventyone 3y ago

Even the problem is misidentified. Marriage is only a proxy for the things that are important. That’s important to identifying a solution as you get boneheaded solutions like ‘give men more power over women so they can’t leave marriages’. Rather than the entirely sensible ones you mention.

konschubert 3y ago

First step is to realise that it's not marriage itself that's helping the kids. The marriage is just the symptom of something else.