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For literally thousands of years humans personally slaughtered animals and had no problem with it. But you assume people wouldn’t do this without some fanciful

• mrtksn 3y ago
  Based on the observation that most modern people have no idea where the meat or the vegetables come from. The packaged goods did the consumers from the o Production. Activist are using videos of production lines to promote their agenda.
  • imgabe 3y ago
    The fact that activists are doing something does not mean that it’s effective or anyone cares. People need food. If they don’t happen to know where it comes from they would figure it out with a quickness if it ever became necessary for them to learn.
    • mrtksn 3y ago
      [flagged]
      • imgabe 3y ago
        No, you don’t need to assign yourself to some particular group to have an opinion.
        • mrtksn 3y ago
          Okay.
    • bezier-curve 3y ago
      People need food but they don't have to eat factory produced meat that requires huge amounts of CO2 footprint and antibiotics that make our own human populations less resistant to bacteria. Biologically we are carnivores but factory farming is leaving evidence for modern society to determine whether or not it's okay and it definitely gives me pause. People care. I think maybe you're just not caring.
      • mrtksn 3y ago
        >People need food but they don't have to eat factory produced meat that requires huge amounts of CO2 footprint and antibiotics that make our own human populations less resistant to bacteria. Biologically we are carnivores but factory farming is leaving evidence for modern society to determine whether or not it's okay and it definitely gives me pause. People care. I think maybe you're just not caring. Why do you write this? I don't control the food policy of the world and I wasn't arguing that people should be vegans. Why people provide unsolicited arguments for eating meat? Why just don't you order a burger instead so we can stay on topic? I don't care who eats what.
  • Jensson 3y ago
    > most modern people have no idea where the meat or the vegetables come from Most modern people knows that meat comes from killed animals. > Activist are using videos of production lines to promote their agenda. The reason we don't like to watch that is the same reason we don't want to watch people take a shit, it isn't that we feel shitting is morally wrong its just not something we want to watch because it is gross.
• johnnyworker 3y ago
  Based on documentaries like "Earthlings". Watch it and tell me everything is fine.
  • manxman 3y ago
    Have you considered the possibility that "Earthlings" is one data point among a very complex web of superficially opposing ideas/arguments that are actually all part of a coordinated agenda to try to fundamentally change your behaviour and psychology by messing with your emotions? Go look up B.F. Skinner and Operant Conditioning (His book Walden 2 is a semi-fictional work that provides a pretty good approximation to the game that's afoot). I'm sure I'll get shot down for presenting a conspiracy, but once you open your eyes to Operant Conditioning, considering the possibility that power hungry groups haven't been using it is kind of like trying to imagine a world where people chose not to use the internet. The only difference is that applied behavioural psychology is more dangerous and powerful than the internet. This game is happening quite pervasively and a lot of smart people have been coercively brainwashed into being passive if not active players in this process. There are of course a litany of justifications used by those that do the brainwashing. It will seem farfetched until it's not.
    • johnnyworker 3y ago
      > a coordinated agenda ... of making me have empathy with sentient beings suffering? Joke's on them, I already had that.
      • pauldenton 3y ago
        Or selling you products Impossible burgers Tofu. It's like a coordinated agenda to stigmatize the internal combustion engine and promote renewable energy sources like solar and wind. You might just be in the prime demographics for both but a majority of the population isn't.
        • jabradoodle 3y ago
          Nobody has stigmatized engines, people are trying to reduce emissions because the greatest body of knowledge we have access to (science) suggests we should.
• ethanbond 3y ago
  The emotions one feels watching a video of a factory farm are very, very different from what one feels watching a family raise some livestock and then kill them. They’re obviously not the same thing. During those thousands of years where humans personally slaughtered animals, they often built complete philosophies around their relationship to those animals. Those philosophies are way, way more complex and personally involved than the modern grocery shopping experience, obviously.
  • Jensson 3y ago
    > The emotions one feels watching a video of a factory farm are very, very different from what one feels watching a family raise some livestock and then kill them Is this really true? People who kill animals for a living doesn't have any emotions about it, watching them do it is like watching them cut a tomato.
    • dpkirchner 3y ago
      You're talking about relatively few people -- I too would bet that most people (those of us not working in slaughterhouses) would find videos from factory farms disturbing. There's a reason big-ag farmers are afraid people will see videos showing their operations. So afraid that they pay off politicians to ban such video recording.
      • Jensson 3y ago
        > I too would bet that most people (those of us not working in slaughterhouses) would find videos from factory farms disturbing. But why would they be more disturbing than watching a person slaughtering and cutting up an animal? You didn't answer the question, you just said that one was disturbing, not why one was more disturbing than the other.
        • ethanbond 3y ago
          Why is it relevant whether one can put a finger on the difference? The claim was that people use their economic distance from meat production to protect themselves from the negative feelings that would be created if they had to do it themselves, especially in the manner of factory farming. Anyway my theory for the distinction is 1) the scale of suffering is obviously far far greater than family-scale slaughter and 2) the way in which we do factory farming reflects poorly on us as a species. If people had to see their livestock suffer, they would make a different calculation of how much meat to eat and how to handle that animal while it’s alive. As someone else mentioned, this isn’t some crazy avant garde hypothesis: this is exactly why mass meat producers don’t want people filming their operations. The prior argument that “people always killed animals!” is irrelevant. They certainly did not kill animals the way we do today and again, this is evidenced in the belief systems that emerged during times where people couldn’t afford to be hundreds of miles removed from the production of their food.
• lefstathiou 3y ago
  Anecdotal “proof”: In the heart of Manhattan’s ultra trendy Chelsea neighborhood is the Chelsea market which is now this super trendy food hall. In the basement is a delicious butcher named Dicksons where literally hundreds of New Yorkers and tourists eat and drink craft beers while they literally saw entire pigs and baby calfs in half and dangle their carcasses in clear eye sight of where you sit and eat. I take my family there all the time because of how tasty and fresh the meats are and my children love it. Showing people where their meat comes isn’t going to reduce the demand in my opinion. I personally believe people should know where their food comes from as it reduces waste and garners introspection about our role in the planet and ecosystem. I’m Greek American and lamb on the spit is a cultural tradition on Easter. As a kid, it was very weird for my American friends to pick food directly off of a carcass but so many told me over the years it was an unforgettable experience. My uncle once took me to the farm in Georgia where he got the lamb, handed me a large knife and asked me to slit its throat, I was 13 at the time. I couldn’t do it, I cried and watched him do it. I will never forget that. To this day I have a profound love and appreciation of animals, especially lambs. I still eat them. The two ideas for me are not conflicted to me. The only thing I abhor when it comes to meat is wastefulness.
  • ethanbond 3y ago
    Go show your kid a real factory farm instead of a high-end butcher in a trendy food hall and report back! Easy experiment to run and your kids’ reaction could settle this debate.
    • lefstathiou 3y ago
      Of course seeing something you haven’t seen is shocking. To make someone give up meat is a stretch. My kids have been up close and personal to butchers in wet markets chopping up fish, pigs and chickens in Taiwan. This is the daily way of life for billions of people. I believe people over estimate the reaction this would garner from most of the world’s population, which indicates to me that a similar reaction would happen here if we saw it regularly.
      • 3y ago
• dopidopHN 3y ago
  I think you are correct. People will be fine with the general idea of killing animals. But. In those thousand of years, was the meat produced the same way? What type of antibiotics alternative were our elders using to prevent sickness in large groups of animals? Did they raised them squeezed next to each other without moving for their all life? Where our forefathers feeding a purée of the dead one to the next generation to boost their immune system? Did they had to pasteurize the milk, not for enhanced shelf life but mostly because sanitary condition are so poor that other wise you found particles of shit in it? I could go on. But I think the comment you responding to as a fair point. Real; 2023 technic of meat/eggs/milk production are horrifying. we don’t know how the sausage is made. I’m not vegetarian. I’ve kill and skinned large mammals ( goats .. not that fancy but well ) but I avoid industrial meat as much as possible. Those are meat factory with advance industrial processes. I do thing folks would be concern for their own health and kinda disgusted if it was displayed more transparently.
  • imgabe 3y ago
    They would have used any and every type of antibiotic or other technique that resulted in being able to make more food, because they probably had personal memories of loved ones starving to death when there wasn’t enough food. I know for a fact they would do this because it is in fact what they did.
    • dopidopHN 3y ago
      Or; they would have space out the animals. Allowing them to shit not on themselves and the one next to their anus. And tadam. You don’t need antibiotics. It’s the filthy condition we produce our meat into that require that. And those technics are not mandatory to produce that much meat. This is needed to producing at a certain price, on a schedule. it’s not really about starving to death anymore. But rather cranking the profit margin a bit higher.
      • imgabe 3y ago
        Producing food at the right price and on the right schedule is important. It is no good to produce food people can’t afford or that bankrupts the producer. It is no good to produce food only after people are starving and riots have broken out. What kind of profit margins do you imagine food producers are making? This is not Google where they sell little ads at a 30% margin. It’s a commodity business with a lot of competition.