4 ms·

Maybe we can have fewer cars and fewer roads and just focus more on building sustainable cities that are more focused on people instead of vehicles?

ZoomerCretin 3y ago
You're downvoted for apparent irrelevance even though you're absolutely right. It's a shame that those of us who dislike car-centric design have no affordable options in the US. Without a hint of irony, Musk likes to talk about engineers optimizing solutions to a problem that shouldn't exist. An EV is still a car, and still contributes to the impoverishment of our lives. Cars shed brake and tire dust. They necessitate huge scars across our cities, removing double-digit percentages of land from productive use with their 6-lane roads, and massive parking lots and structures, and ruin much of the rest of the land with proximity to noise and particulate pollution. They make (or made) suburbs economical, contributing to increasing loneliness and isolation, as well as raising the financial bar for participating in society. They've ruined what makes cities great, and without giving us anything in return except huge money and time sinks.
- tuatoru 3y ago
  I don't really care about centrism, but from a public health point of view, cars contribute greatly (hah!) to obesity and all its ills. As well as all the ills you list.
ars 3y ago
My vehicle enables my person to do so much more than I could do without it. To focus on People, for me, would imply making vehicle transport easier and quicker. There's virtually nothing I'm interested in that's in walking distance (there are plenty of things in walkable distance - I'm just interested in none of them).
- cratermoon 3y ago
  > There's virtually nothing I'm interested in that's in walking distance That's the problem to solve, then.
  - ars 3y ago
    When I want to go shopping I want the store to be the size of a city block. When I want nature I want a huge park, where I can drive a distance inside the park until there are no humans in sight. When I want entertainment the things I'm interested in wouldn't fit in walkable distance. When I want a museam it's going to be large. So tell me, what could you offer me that's small enough to be within walking distance, and still interesting? A library is the only thing I can think of. I also want my house to be large enough to store all the tools I could want, with a space for a workshop, and space outside so I can build things or work on a car if I want.
    - happytiger 3y ago
      You’re making it an OR when it’s an AND. You can have vast forests and parks, massive shopping, and entertainment at a distance AND still live in a livable, walkable place. If you want to live in a very large home with a huge shop, that’s also possible. The current model excludes walkable and livable cities in favor of car dependency. Lack of car dependency doesn’t exclude the use of cars or having a mix of use cases. But car dependence by nature does. Nobody is saying you can’t have central parks, Costco and theme parks or whatever use cases you’re referencing. But you should also enjoy a neighborhood coffee shop and local grocery, a bakery down the street and places for your kids to play while you have dinner right in your own neighborhood. These are foreign concepts for those used to the suburbs and I often get accosted with comments like your which are deeply valid but reinforce just one set of values without really considering that it’s not a competition, but an addition and enhancement to our way of life — more of a return to what our grandparents enjoyed — that walkable cities is advocating. There is a full spectrum of possibilities. I won’t even get into the higher property values, healthier lifestyles, reduced cancer and heart disease risks and increased lifespans, the more deeply connected communities… moving away from just cars as the foundation for moving around, between and therefore for planning our cities generates many virtuous cycles. So, no resistance. You can have it all, but consider that cities could be a LOT better if we struck a real balance. You should see what people are building… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wrnAsMSwGbg&pp=ygUPV2Fsa2FibGUgY2l0aWVz https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wrnAsMSwGbg&pp=ygUPV2Fsa2FibGU...
- ZoomerCretin 3y ago
  There's nothing interesting in walking distance _because_ everyone has a car.

ZoomerCretin 3y ago

You're downvoted for apparent irrelevance even though you're absolutely right. It's a shame that those of us who dislike car-centric design have no affordable options in the US. Without a hint of irony, Musk likes to talk about engineers optimizing solutions to a problem that shouldn't exist. An EV is still a car, and still contributes to the impoverishment of our lives. Cars shed brake and tire dust. They necessitate huge scars across our cities, removing double-digit percentages of land from productive use with their 6-lane roads, and massive parking lots and structures, and ruin much of the rest of the land with proximity to noise and particulate pollution. They make (or made) suburbs economical, contributing to increasing loneliness and isolation, as well as raising the financial bar for participating in society. They've ruined what makes cities great, and without giving us anything in return except huge money and time sinks.

tuatoru 3y ago
I don't really care about centrism, but from a public health point of view, cars contribute greatly (hah!) to obesity and all its ills. As well as all the ills you list.

ars 3y ago

My vehicle enables my person to do so much more than I could do without it. To focus on People, for me, would imply making vehicle transport easier and quicker. There's virtually nothing I'm interested in that's in walking distance (there are plenty of things in walkable distance - I'm just interested in none of them).

cratermoon 3y ago
> There's virtually nothing I'm interested in that's in walking distance That's the problem to solve, then.
- ars 3y ago
  When I want to go shopping I want the store to be the size of a city block. When I want nature I want a huge park, where I can drive a distance inside the park until there are no humans in sight. When I want entertainment the things I'm interested in wouldn't fit in walkable distance. When I want a museam it's going to be large. So tell me, what could you offer me that's small enough to be within walking distance, and still interesting? A library is the only thing I can think of. I also want my house to be large enough to store all the tools I could want, with a space for a workshop, and space outside so I can build things or work on a car if I want.
  - happytiger 3y ago
    You’re making it an OR when it’s an AND. You can have vast forests and parks, massive shopping, and entertainment at a distance AND still live in a livable, walkable place. If you want to live in a very large home with a huge shop, that’s also possible. The current model excludes walkable and livable cities in favor of car dependency. Lack of car dependency doesn’t exclude the use of cars or having a mix of use cases. But car dependence by nature does. Nobody is saying you can’t have central parks, Costco and theme parks or whatever use cases you’re referencing. But you should also enjoy a neighborhood coffee shop and local grocery, a bakery down the street and places for your kids to play while you have dinner right in your own neighborhood. These are foreign concepts for those used to the suburbs and I often get accosted with comments like your which are deeply valid but reinforce just one set of values without really considering that it’s not a competition, but an addition and enhancement to our way of life — more of a return to what our grandparents enjoyed — that walkable cities is advocating. There is a full spectrum of possibilities. I won’t even get into the higher property values, healthier lifestyles, reduced cancer and heart disease risks and increased lifespans, the more deeply connected communities… moving away from just cars as the foundation for moving around, between and therefore for planning our cities generates many virtuous cycles. So, no resistance. You can have it all, but consider that cities could be a LOT better if we struck a real balance. You should see what people are building… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wrnAsMSwGbg&pp=ygUPV2Fsa2FibGUgY2l0aWVz https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wrnAsMSwGbg&pp=ygUPV2Fsa2FibGU...
ZoomerCretin 3y ago
There's nothing interesting in walking distance _because_ everyone has a car.