5 ms·

Air Rage Is Getting Worse, and Airlines Can't Fix It

31 points by my12parsecs 3y ago

cratermoon 3y ago
I worked with a guy who had spent over a decade working in guest relations at the airport for an airline. Working the check-in desk, the gate, the guest lounge, luggage, etc. He got an opportunity during the pandemic, when air travel went to almost nothing, to move to an office in corporate HQ and work with programmers as a domain expert and guide, and jump at it. He knew stuff that wasn't written down anywhere but was key to the passenger experience. He told me he'd quit before going to back to work with passengers at the airport. It was that bad.
lulznews 3y ago
They caused it by racing to the bottom. They could fix it, but won’t.
- snakeyjake 3y ago
  They may be racing to the bottom but you don't have to. I pay the EXACT SAME for airfare that I did in the 90s and 2000s, adjusted for inflation. The standard of service and amenities are better. You can fly, today, right now, from NYC to Paris in a gigantic lie-flat seat with a widescreen entertainment device, goodie bag, hot towels throughout the flight, food that's actually decent, and personal electrical sockets right next to your elbow for less than what a turbo-economy non-reclining middle seat in the aft-most bulkhead row next to the lavatories would have cost in the late-90s/early-2000s. But most people select "price: lowest to highest" and click on the lowest number regardless of how bad that option is (connections, flight time, product quality, rewards, fees) and then get angry when corners are cut. It's like buying a chromebook and getting mad when it can't run Solidworks.
  - kashunstva 3y ago
    > But most people select "price: lowest to highest" and click on the lowest number regardless of how bad that option is That the quality of the premium service is unchanged may say little about the how the experience has changed in the lower tiers. The issue in those service tiers may not be in comparison to the first class experience but in comparison to previous years’ experience. That said, though I rarely fly, and when I do it’s never in some rarefied class of service, I don’t perceive much difference. The security theatre is the most notable change; but that’s hardly the fault of the airlines. The opacity and complexity of the rewards programs is an irritation; but I suppose it’s my own indulgence that I just ignore all that.
zeteo 3y ago
They can't, or don't want to fix it? There is a well argued case that the airlines are inflicting distress on their passengers quite intentionally: https://thehill.com/business/4268539-calculated-misery-heres-why-airlines-want-you-to-be-uncomfortable/ https://thehill.com/business/4268539-calculated-misery-heres...
- lencastre 3y ago
  Meh… I’m not an expert in airline economics but it often seems the case that if you are not a barebones low cost charging for everything excess toilet access and a seat, you may not be able to get enough occupancy to pay airport fees, maintenance, baggage, fuel, crew, and the rest of the operating costs, otherwise that bird is taking off and bleed dollars. Then you are a national carrier, and you must be subsidized by the government.
wly_cdgr 3y ago
Airlines are lying, bait-and-switching pieces of shit and the flying experience gets worse every year, so the only thing that's surprising is that there aren't way more of these incidents
- wkat4242 3y ago
  They are yes but that doesn't justify taking it out on their employees. They're just in the same boat as we are. And with airlines like Ryanair, when you want something just pay for it. Seat selection, carryon etc. It's still cheaper than a traditional airline. When you follow their rules you won't have issues.
  - carlmr 3y ago
    >They are yes but that doesn't justify taking it out on their employees. It's not rational, but humans aren't rational. And sadly if somebody is angry and the culprit isn't present, they will be angry at the nearest human they deem at least slightly responsible. In this case the airline employees.
    - mindslight 3y ago
      It's not unreasonable to expect that the human agents of the airline have power to affect the behavior of the airline. Today's employees are also victims of the same spreadsheet-minmaxxed policy-computer-mediated-system as the passengers, but this doesn't actually erase that fundamental dynamic. It just makes for the age old setup where capital puts humans in a captive zero-sum situation to fight it out amongst themselves while it pulls the strings to invisibly extract the most value.
  - wjnc 3y ago
    The amount of people (willfully?) trying to haggle with Ryanair is probably the most detrimental to their experience. My latest flight about 40% (yes, I’m counting) of the waits were for people discussing non-booked preferences (suitcases, seats, priority). They should accept any customer wish (except seating) and charge afterwards. That would be great. “Oh here we see you had a overhead and stood in the priority lane. That’ll be € 400 extra.” Off course their pricing is obnoxious, intransparant and pretty much in opposite of good customer service, but that is their good right. They fly safe, on time and have the best network.
deafpolygon 3y ago
Not surprising when airlines pack their customers in a tiny tin can like sardines.
dagurp 3y ago
Maybe alcohol shouldn't be served on flights? Just throwing that out there.
- joezydeco 3y ago
  Everyone is loading up in the airport bars before boarding. Putting the little bottles away won't help that.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Southwest in the US is now providing two free alcoholic drinks on each segment to A List Preferred frequent flyers. https://www.southwest.com/rapid-rewards/program-updates/ https://www.southwest.com/rapid-rewards/program-updates/
- porkbeer 3y ago
  A drink is what helps many people tolerate the din and chaos. Let those that act out be judfed on thir own. Booze is not an excuse or a primary driver of these incidents.
andrewstuart 3y ago
The rise of righteous indignation.
Eumenes 3y ago
how about blacklisting certain offenders? sounds pretty easy.
- porkbeer 3y ago
  I heard you say something I interpreted as vaugely racist and reported you and now youre on an unappealable no-fly list. See anything wrong there?
mayd 3y ago
Can't fix. Won't fix.
nytesky 3y ago
Road rage. Air rage. Political rage. There is a lot of anger all the time, yet the economy has been pretty good? Is it post-COVID biology? People permanently unsettled by the GFC? Rising temperatures?
- pohl 3y ago
  Might be increased incidence of narcissism. Adult bodies driven around by the minds of children.
vonwoodson 3y ago
Flying is a truly horrible experience. All the victim-blaming in the world won’t help either. I say: time to cut federal spending on keeping airlines in business. If United, et. al., can’t cut it as a business… so be it. Maybe, if we let The Market steer for a while these issues will resolve.
throwaway5959 3y ago
There is a solution. Create a cross-airline list and ban them for one year on the first offense, three years on the second and then it’s a lifetime ban. Ban alcohol on flights and if someone is caught bringing alcohol on flights they get a ban too.
- porkbeer 3y ago
  Booze is the only thing keeping many of the travlers calm. This is a terrible idea.
  - throwaway5959 3y ago
    If people are that dependent on a drug to regulate their behavior maybe people should look into that. I mean, Jesus, it’s a max four hour plane ride in the US.
crtracker 3y ago
flying is a horrible horrible experience. the seats are too small, the legroom too short, the speakers too loud, the reliability too low. and it gets worse every year. nobody in coach buys a ticket to fly thinking it might go okay anymore. they know it will be terrible. but there's no alternative. where i live there's one airline. even when there's choice, there's very little choice. i don't use any of this to be rageful towards anyone else. but it's a predictable outcome from this ever increasing pressure. and i didn't even get into how bad US airports are, how unhappy passengers are before they even get on the plane.
sillywalk 3y ago
Put them on the no-fly list.
white_dragon88 3y ago
[dead]

31 points by my12parsecs 3y ago

I worked with a guy who had spent over a decade working in guest relations at the airport for an airline. Working the check-in desk, the gate, the guest lounge, luggage, etc. He got an opportunity during the pandemic, when air travel went to almost nothing, to move to an office in corporate HQ and work with programmers as a domain expert and guide, and jump at it. He knew stuff that wasn't written down anywhere but was key to the passenger experience. He told me he'd quit before going to back to work with passengers at the airport. It was that bad.

lulznews 3y ago

They caused it by racing to the bottom. They could fix it, but won’t.

snakeyjake 3y ago
They may be racing to the bottom but you don't have to. I pay the EXACT SAME for airfare that I did in the 90s and 2000s, adjusted for inflation. The standard of service and amenities are better. You can fly, today, right now, from NYC to Paris in a gigantic lie-flat seat with a widescreen entertainment device, goodie bag, hot towels throughout the flight, food that's actually decent, and personal electrical sockets right next to your elbow for less than what a turbo-economy non-reclining middle seat in the aft-most bulkhead row next to the lavatories would have cost in the late-90s/early-2000s. But most people select "price: lowest to highest" and click on the lowest number regardless of how bad that option is (connections, flight time, product quality, rewards, fees) and then get angry when corners are cut. It's like buying a chromebook and getting mad when it can't run Solidworks.
- kashunstva 3y ago
  > But most people select "price: lowest to highest" and click on the lowest number regardless of how bad that option is That the quality of the premium service is unchanged may say little about the how the experience has changed in the lower tiers. The issue in those service tiers may not be in comparison to the first class experience but in comparison to previous years’ experience. That said, though I rarely fly, and when I do it’s never in some rarefied class of service, I don’t perceive much difference. The security theatre is the most notable change; but that’s hardly the fault of the airlines. The opacity and complexity of the rewards programs is an irritation; but I suppose it’s my own indulgence that I just ignore all that.

zeteo 3y ago

They can't, or don't want to fix it? There is a well argued case that the airlines are inflicting distress on their passengers quite intentionally: https://thehill.com/business/4268539-calculated-misery-heres-why-airlines-want-you-to-be-uncomfortable/ https://thehill.com/business/4268539-calculated-misery-heres...

lencastre 3y ago
Meh… I’m not an expert in airline economics but it often seems the case that if you are not a barebones low cost charging for everything excess toilet access and a seat, you may not be able to get enough occupancy to pay airport fees, maintenance, baggage, fuel, crew, and the rest of the operating costs, otherwise that bird is taking off and bleed dollars. Then you are a national carrier, and you must be subsidized by the government.

wly_cdgr 3y ago

Airlines are lying, bait-and-switching pieces of shit and the flying experience gets worse every year, so the only thing that's surprising is that there aren't way more of these incidents

wkat4242 3y ago
They are yes but that doesn't justify taking it out on their employees. They're just in the same boat as we are. And with airlines like Ryanair, when you want something just pay for it. Seat selection, carryon etc. It's still cheaper than a traditional airline. When you follow their rules you won't have issues.
- carlmr 3y ago
  >They are yes but that doesn't justify taking it out on their employees. It's not rational, but humans aren't rational. And sadly if somebody is angry and the culprit isn't present, they will be angry at the nearest human they deem at least slightly responsible. In this case the airline employees.
  - mindslight 3y ago
    It's not unreasonable to expect that the human agents of the airline have power to affect the behavior of the airline. Today's employees are also victims of the same spreadsheet-minmaxxed policy-computer-mediated-system as the passengers, but this doesn't actually erase that fundamental dynamic. It just makes for the age old setup where capital puts humans in a captive zero-sum situation to fight it out amongst themselves while it pulls the strings to invisibly extract the most value.
- wjnc 3y ago
  The amount of people (willfully?) trying to haggle with Ryanair is probably the most detrimental to their experience. My latest flight about 40% (yes, I’m counting) of the waits were for people discussing non-booked preferences (suitcases, seats, priority). They should accept any customer wish (except seating) and charge afterwards. That would be great. “Oh here we see you had a overhead and stood in the priority lane. That’ll be € 400 extra.” Off course their pricing is obnoxious, intransparant and pretty much in opposite of good customer service, but that is their good right. They fly safe, on time and have the best network.

deafpolygon 3y ago

Not surprising when airlines pack their customers in a tiny tin can like sardines.

dagurp 3y ago

Maybe alcohol shouldn't be served on flights? Just throwing that out there.

joezydeco 3y ago
Everyone is loading up in the airport bars before boarding. Putting the little bottles away won't help that.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Southwest in the US is now providing two free alcoholic drinks on each segment to A List Preferred frequent flyers. https://www.southwest.com/rapid-rewards/program-updates/ https://www.southwest.com/rapid-rewards/program-updates/
porkbeer 3y ago
A drink is what helps many people tolerate the din and chaos. Let those that act out be judfed on thir own. Booze is not an excuse or a primary driver of these incidents.

andrewstuart 3y ago

The rise of righteous indignation.

Eumenes 3y ago

how about blacklisting certain offenders? sounds pretty easy.

porkbeer 3y ago
I heard you say something I interpreted as vaugely racist and reported you and now youre on an unappealable no-fly list. See anything wrong there?

mayd 3y ago

Can't fix. Won't fix.

nytesky 3y ago

Road rage. Air rage. Political rage. There is a lot of anger all the time, yet the economy has been pretty good? Is it post-COVID biology? People permanently unsettled by the GFC? Rising temperatures?

pohl 3y ago
Might be increased incidence of narcissism. Adult bodies driven around by the minds of children.

vonwoodson 3y ago

Flying is a truly horrible experience. All the victim-blaming in the world won’t help either. I say: time to cut federal spending on keeping airlines in business. If United, et. al., can’t cut it as a business… so be it. Maybe, if we let The Market steer for a while these issues will resolve.

throwaway5959 3y ago

There is a solution. Create a cross-airline list and ban them for one year on the first offense, three years on the second and then it’s a lifetime ban. Ban alcohol on flights and if someone is caught bringing alcohol on flights they get a ban too.

porkbeer 3y ago
Booze is the only thing keeping many of the travlers calm. This is a terrible idea.
- throwaway5959 3y ago
  If people are that dependent on a drug to regulate their behavior maybe people should look into that. I mean, Jesus, it’s a max four hour plane ride in the US.

crtracker 3y ago

flying is a horrible horrible experience. the seats are too small, the legroom too short, the speakers too loud, the reliability too low. and it gets worse every year. nobody in coach buys a ticket to fly thinking it might go okay anymore. they know it will be terrible. but there's no alternative. where i live there's one airline. even when there's choice, there's very little choice. i don't use any of this to be rageful towards anyone else. but it's a predictable outcome from this ever increasing pressure. and i didn't even get into how bad US airports are, how unhappy passengers are before they even get on the plane.

sillywalk 3y ago

Put them on the no-fly list.

white_dragon88 3y ago

[dead]