4 ms·

I've become the "grump" at my workplace for disliking Marvel movies. The entire reason is they're formulaic, predictable, cheesy, etc. The push-back on my grum

I've become the "grump" at my workplace for disliking Marvel movies. The entire reason is they're formulaic, predictable, cheesy, etc. The push-back on my grumpiness is usually along the lines of "No they're not, they're awesome!" -- for which I can't really debate: if the person really likes them then it's just a matter of opinion. But often another opinion is to dismiss my critique as a "Who cares? If they [fans] enjoy it, then so what? They enjoy their thing and you enjoy yours?" But it reinforces your point that these things have just been watered down for the most mass audience possible. There's no "art" in them anymore. And whatever originally made them special has been distilled to a formula so that "they" (the fans, maybe not the original fanbase though) can just enjoy the formula. The popcorn-movie aspect of them. It isn't just comic movies and Star Wars/Trek, but also things like The Fast and The Furious movie franchise too. In recent years Martin Scorsese had been vocal against Marvel movies [1], and he's received hate from Marvel fanatics since [2]. But I agree with him. 1. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/martin-scorsese-marvel.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/martin-scorsese-m... 2. https://www.avclub.com/martin-scorsese-versus-marvel-superhero-movies-1850888356 https://www.avclub.com/martin-scorsese-versus-marvel-superhe...

sitkack 3y ago
I am not a comic book person by any stretch, but I do visit Fantagraphics in Seattle once and awhile. What strikes me about the movies that they got stuck in this formulaic loop, where in many comics, the protagonist or antihero make an amazing personal transformation. What I have seen of the new animated/rotoscoped spiderman, it looks pretty good in terms of arc. the medium could be utterly amazing and touch on things you could never do in normal live action movies.
mnky9800n 3y ago
I am totally ok if others like these things. But it's more like sports than it is like art. If you like sports that's fine, it takes an amazing amount of talent and experience and money to put together a professional team whether you are a player, coach, or manager. But the end result will always be some dudes on a field chasing a ball. And there's nothing wrong with that. Many people enjoy that. But it's not art (as defined as something that challenges the audience) and it doesn't claim to be. Nothing about a modern franchise challenges me in any way. There's nothing socially conscious, critically new, or ideologically challenging in any marvel or star wars whatever these days.
- itjustisthough 3y ago
  > But it's not art (as defined as something that challenges the audience) That’s a pretty restrictive definition of art. While I appreciate that you’ve defined your terms, I think this definition is nonstandard.
  - mnky9800n 3y ago
    Duchamp allowed us to define art as whatever we want it to be. I don't think I'm outside of his boundary conditions.

sitkack 3y ago

I am not a comic book person by any stretch, but I do visit Fantagraphics in Seattle once and awhile. What strikes me about the movies that they got stuck in this formulaic loop, where in many comics, the protagonist or antihero make an amazing personal transformation. What I have seen of the new animated/rotoscoped spiderman, it looks pretty good in terms of arc. the medium could be utterly amazing and touch on things you could never do in normal live action movies.

mnky9800n 3y ago

I am totally ok if others like these things. But it's more like sports than it is like art. If you like sports that's fine, it takes an amazing amount of talent and experience and money to put together a professional team whether you are a player, coach, or manager. But the end result will always be some dudes on a field chasing a ball. And there's nothing wrong with that. Many people enjoy that. But it's not art (as defined as something that challenges the audience) and it doesn't claim to be. Nothing about a modern franchise challenges me in any way. There's nothing socially conscious, critically new, or ideologically challenging in any marvel or star wars whatever these days.

itjustisthough 3y ago
> But it's not art (as defined as something that challenges the audience) That’s a pretty restrictive definition of art. While I appreciate that you’ve defined your terms, I think this definition is nonstandard.
- mnky9800n 3y ago
  Duchamp allowed us to define art as whatever we want it to be. I don't think I'm outside of his boundary conditions.