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Try this on: "A non-trivial number of Computer Scientists, Computer Engineers, Electrical Engineers, and hobbyists have ..." Took some philosophy courses for

by PTOB 3y ago

Try this on: "A non-trivial number of Computer Scientists, Computer Engineers, Electrical Engineers, and hobbyists have ..." Took some philosophy courses for fun in college. I developed a reading skill there that lets me forgive certain statements by improving them instead of dismissing them. My brain now automatically translates over-generalizations and even outright falsehoods into rationally-nearby true statements. As the argument unfolds, those ideas are reconfigured until the entire piece can be evaluated as logically coherent. The upshot is that any time I read a crappy article, I'm left with a new batch of true and false premises or claims about topics I'm interested in. And thus my mental world expands.

smokel 3y ago
That's a refreshing take. I tried real hard to understand what some continental philosophers, such as Latour, Deleuze, and Žižek are on about, giving some of their texts quite some benefit of the doubt. After about ten years of doing so, I am more and more returning to my previous opinion that some of these just like to talk, and even though they have lots to say, they say so much, that I still have to do all the actual philosophizing myself.
- salawat 3y ago
  The Ur subject of philosophy is not the writing and reading of philosophy, but to exercise the mind in coming to grips with that which we have no conception of yet. Language is it's medium, and the IO is those texts. However the nugget at the center is figuring out that magic blackbox that lets you take all the dead ends in those texts and divine a reasonable guiding principle or recognition of an end to the space of tread discourse. To that end, you have to approach philosophical reading with a degree of hypothetical detachment that not everyone is immediately comfortable with.
  - crooked-v 3y ago
    The Tao Te Ching opens with almost exactly that subject... though, of course, it also makes you think about it a while first to understand what it's getting at.
    - runlaszlorun 3y ago
      Aha, nice connection! I'm a fan of the Tao Te Ching but never would've caught that one my own. Thx!
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- Karrot_Kream 3y ago
  Philosophy is often called the "Great Conversation" because, as you say, a lot of it is just people "saying things". Some of these things are incredibly insightful others are just babbling, the ones that make it into books generally have a higher ratio of insight to babble. You need to read philosophy, especially continental philosophy, with a critical eye. If you aren't chewing on and contemplating (and calling "bullshit") on philosophy as you read it, you aren't getting out of it what you should.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    It's one thing to disagree, but if there's a bunch of content-free words that's just bad writing.
heyoni 3y ago
I feel like that would slow down my reading so hard…and I’m already a slow reader :(
nn_m 3y ago
Thanks so much for sharing this. I'm watching a self described "politicsl philosopher" on yTube. (The talks are labeled as chats, are not scripted, although he has separate channel that offers scripted material) The "chats" are usually edifying, but I am often frustrated by the rambling and repetition (He is always trying to bring in new listeners, so that partly explains the repetition) But from my own (arm chair politcal organizer) point of view, i'm thinking "you have ~10 very good key points you touch on/repeat over time, why not be a more effective communicator, make this visual as well as verbal and turn this into a message. I.e. bullet points that are always close at hand and that you're l using to tie the talk together." But that's basically propaganda main tool. So thanks for sharing your effort and discipline in going to the philosophy classes. Your more expansive approach to what people aay chimes very much with my yT mentor's reminder to listen 99% and judge 1%. Dont try to win every argument or prove your point of view is right. Others are entitled to their (wrong (-; ) opinions (just as if we think back to our changing points of view, we have been "wrong" in the past too. Judge yee not ....) By continuing to listen to those we don't agree with we are putting a face to ideas they dont accept or understand (it is easier to stay in your own bubble when you are only looking/hearing people that you agree with) AND by listening respectfully we are keeping the lines of communication open.

by PTOB 3y ago

smokel 3y ago

That's a refreshing take. I tried real hard to understand what some continental philosophers, such as Latour, Deleuze, and Žižek are on about, giving some of their texts quite some benefit of the doubt. After about ten years of doing so, I am more and more returning to my previous opinion that some of these just like to talk, and even though they have lots to say, they say so much, that I still have to do all the actual philosophizing myself.

salawat 3y ago
The Ur subject of philosophy is not the writing and reading of philosophy, but to exercise the mind in coming to grips with that which we have no conception of yet. Language is it's medium, and the IO is those texts. However the nugget at the center is figuring out that magic blackbox that lets you take all the dead ends in those texts and divine a reasonable guiding principle or recognition of an end to the space of tread discourse. To that end, you have to approach philosophical reading with a degree of hypothetical detachment that not everyone is immediately comfortable with.
- crooked-v 3y ago
  The Tao Te Ching opens with almost exactly that subject... though, of course, it also makes you think about it a while first to understand what it's getting at.
  - runlaszlorun 3y ago
    Aha, nice connection! I'm a fan of the Tao Te Ching but never would've caught that one my own. Thx!
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Karrot_Kream 3y ago
Philosophy is often called the "Great Conversation" because, as you say, a lot of it is just people "saying things". Some of these things are incredibly insightful others are just babbling, the ones that make it into books generally have a higher ratio of insight to babble. You need to read philosophy, especially continental philosophy, with a critical eye. If you aren't chewing on and contemplating (and calling "bullshit") on philosophy as you read it, you aren't getting out of it what you should.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  It's one thing to disagree, but if there's a bunch of content-free words that's just bad writing.

heyoni 3y ago

I feel like that would slow down my reading so hard…and I’m already a slow reader :(

nn_m 3y ago

Thanks so much for sharing this. I'm watching a self described "politicsl philosopher" on yTube. (The talks are labeled as chats, are not scripted, although he has separate channel that offers scripted material) The "chats" are usually edifying, but I am often frustrated by the rambling and repetition (He is always trying to bring in new listeners, so that partly explains the repetition) But from my own (arm chair politcal organizer) point of view, i'm thinking "you have ~10 very good key points you touch on/repeat over time, why not be a more effective communicator, make this visual as well as verbal and turn this into a message. I.e. bullet points that are always close at hand and that you're l using to tie the talk together." But that's basically propaganda main tool. So thanks for sharing your effort and discipline in going to the philosophy classes. Your more expansive approach to what people aay chimes very much with my yT mentor's reminder to listen 99% and judge 1%. Dont try to win every argument or prove your point of view is right. Others are entitled to their (wrong (-; ) opinions (just as if we think back to our changing points of view, we have been "wrong" in the past too. Judge yee not ....) By continuing to listen to those we don't agree with we are putting a face to ideas they dont accept or understand (it is easier to stay in your own bubble when you are only looking/hearing people that you agree with) AND by listening respectfully we are keeping the lines of communication open.