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Such a stupid ideological take from these places, if they really wanted to tank the whole thing they should have built their own exchanges and make them suck ju

Such a stupid ideological take from these places, if they really wanted to tank the whole thing they should have built their own exchanges and make them suck just like some states (like Florida) make the unemployment system so insanely complicated many just don't even try to apply for it. I'm glad they're not smart enough to do that though and people were able to get healthcare through the federal exchange. I hope these bigots continue to be evil and dumb, if they get smart then we're really in for a bad time.

toolz 3y ago
maybe if the centralized government gets smart we'll actually have a good time...as it stands our healthcare in the US is abysmal and neither political leaning has any right in name calling - both ideologies have failed miserably.
- kaibee 3y ago
  > both ideologies have failed miserably. Y'know the ACA originally had a public option in the bill. Guess which side killed that? Why did we even need an ACA-with-private-insurance-companies anyway? The ACA was initially copy of what was implemented in Massachusetts by Mitt Romney. It's frustrating that Democrats had to compromise just to end up with a system that only somewhat better than what it replaced, and then get blamed for the result.
  - nradov 3y ago
    Most policy changes in a democracy are going to be frustrating compromises. That is a feature, not a bug. While this produces suboptimal results on individual issues like healthcare coverage it helps to maintain broad public support for the overall democratic system. Everyone is unhappy for different reasons, but not unhappy enough to revolt over it.
    - jeromegv 3y ago
      Americans talks as if their democracy was fine, that the last president didn’t spend months telling everyone the results were fake and how a revolt happened on January 6th. It’s not a frustrating outcome of democracy. It’s a failure of democracy with one party trying to take over and destroy all other opinions by all means necessary, which includes an open revolt and election stealing.
      - skulk 3y ago
        Further in this direction, currently the lower house is being held hostage by a small group of extremists from the majority party who have no interest in governance. I don't actually share the opinion that this is a breakdown of democracy per se, but rather believe that this is democracy working as intended (by a certain few wealthy people).
        dr-detroit 3y ago
        [dead]
      - mcpackieh 3y ago
        If the lights stay on and food stays on grocery store shelves and people aren't getting dragged out of their homes by revolutionary militias, then democracy is still succeeding in broadly keeping the peace and keeping things humming along. If half the population wants to believe stupid conspiracy theories about the last election, that's fine so long as most of them don't act on it. So long as their attempted coups or revolutions die in the crib before they can do much damage, then democracy is working. > It’s a failure of democracy with one party trying to take over and destroy all other opinions by all means necessary Lots of people talk shit but almost everybody is still going about their daily lives in a normal civil manner. Obviously the state of American democracy could be better, but don't pronounce the patient dead just because he tripped and got his knee bloodied.
        PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
        How about if the patient tripped, knocked their head on the sidewalk, and has started believing some very strange and scary and stupid stuff?
  - toolz 3y ago
    If you can't provide better than "a somewhat better" system at continually growing extraordinary costs[1] then you have no business doing anything. Pointing fingers is getting us nowhere. Someone needs to behave rationally and neither side is willing to do that. I don't really care who the worst offender is, we just need someone to step up and not be an offender [1] https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spending-healthcare-changed-time/#Total%20national%20health%20expenditures,%20US%20$%20per%20capita,%201970-2021 https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spe...
    - isk517 3y ago
      The problem is in a democracy someone stepping up does nothing, you need a solid majority of people to step up which is were the problems begin unfortunately.
  - spiralx 3y ago
    The creation and implementation of the Massachusetts health care system had little to do with Mitt Romney other than him trying to outdo Senate President Robert Travaglini's initial proposal for reducing the number of uninsured people in the state and later attempting to veto parts of the proposed legislation such as making employers contribute towards their employees coverage, letting legal immigrants with jobs use the system and providing dental care to those in the lowest income brackets. "Romneycare" was a pejorative term used by other Republicans to attack Romney when he was going to run for President. The group responsible for the actual legislation was the Affordable Care Today Coalition which consisted of a lot of different interests: https://www.wbur.org/news/2007/04/10/affordability-clash-wbur https://www.wbur.org/news/2007/04/10/affordability-clash-wbu...
  - paulusthe 3y ago
    The public option was killed by Arlen Specter, a Democrat, who refused to go along with the other Democrats. Rs were united, which made his defection critical. Kind of like how Joe Manchin throws a wrench in the works every few years in return for oil and coal extraction benefits for his company in WV
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      One person cannot kill legislation in the Senate, it takes 51 nay votes.
    - nl 3y ago
      Blaming one dumb Democrat when all the other party voted against it seems odd. To be clear: he shouldn't have voted against it. But if the Republicans wanted good outcomes neither should any of them.
    - js2 3y ago
      It was Joe Lieberman (and 40 Republicans), not Arlen Specter, who killed the public option: https://publicintegrity.org/health/elimination-of-public-option-threw-consumers-to-the-insurance-wolves/ https://publicintegrity.org/health/elimination-of-public-opt... https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2009/10/did-sen-joe-lieberman-just-kill-the-public-option.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2009/10/did-sen-joe-lieb...
- smolder 3y ago
  > both ideologies have failed miserably. I think it's a mistake to view the two parties as representing two distinct ideologies, and further to believe either parties rhetoric about what constitutes their ideology. Most of the game of US politics is to see how many terrible/unpopular deeds you can perpetrate against the public on behalf of the moneyed interests (not voters) that supported your campaign without losing votes to the opposition. Wedge issues and propaganda keep people voting on party lines for candidates that only occasionally act in the majority interest of their own voters, let alone the interests of the greater public.
  - jewayne 3y ago
    There are good, well-meaning politicians out there. They are often the ones most vilified by the media. The chief enablers of bad politicians are people who refuse to discern between good politicians and bad politicians. Enablers like you.
    - smolder 3y ago
      I can understand why you would take me for an apathetic non-participant given my cynical comment, but I do agree that there are well-meaning people trying to be more than cogs and I do try to discern the difference.
- jewayne 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - lotsoweiners 3y ago
    Who made you the one in charge of what is considered “progress”? Roughly half the country seems to have an opposite opinion about this.
rayiner 3y ago
[flagged]
- selimthegrim 3y ago
  I moved to Louisiana because I was recruited here and because my cousins live here. Do you think everyone moves for purely monetary reasons?
  - rayiner 3y ago
    When those individual reasons lead to a net migration from blue states to red states (e.g. more people being recruited in red states in the aggregate than in blue states) that’s meaningful. I’ve got some cousins in DFW now and they love it. One, after studying in Queens, is marveling at how “everything is bigger in Texas.” They move for jobs and schools and neighborhood safety; same reason my parents immigrated to red state Virginia instead of blue state Maryland. (Then they helped turn Virginia into a blue state and are now surprised at e.g. democrats trying to “equity” TJ.) I think your point even cuts in the opposite direction. The Bangladeshis I know who moved to Queens did so not because they think New York City is great, but because of the large community of other Bangladeshis. Most of the folks who could afford it migrated out to purple Long Island, etc.
    - dctoedt 3y ago
      Another possibility: Blue states got so expensive precisely because so many people wanted to live there and consequently moved there — supply and demand, etc. And so, when opportunities opened up in red states, it made sense for some of the newly-dissatisfied blue-staters to relocate there. Yeah, they might well gradually turn some of those "nice" red states purple, or even blue — c'est la vie.
gmadsen 3y ago
for what its worth, the vast majority of republican senators are ivy league educated lawyers... just like the democrats. Its too simplistic to boils views you disagree with to "dumb"
dude187 3y ago
> I hope these bigots continue to be evil and dumb, if they get smart then we're really in for a bad time. I love the irony in your bigoted comment.

toolz 3y ago

maybe if the centralized government gets smart we'll actually have a good time...as it stands our healthcare in the US is abysmal and neither political leaning has any right in name calling - both ideologies have failed miserably.

kaibee 3y ago
> both ideologies have failed miserably. Y'know the ACA originally had a public option in the bill. Guess which side killed that? Why did we even need an ACA-with-private-insurance-companies anyway? The ACA was initially copy of what was implemented in Massachusetts by Mitt Romney. It's frustrating that Democrats had to compromise just to end up with a system that only somewhat better than what it replaced, and then get blamed for the result.
- nradov 3y ago
  Most policy changes in a democracy are going to be frustrating compromises. That is a feature, not a bug. While this produces suboptimal results on individual issues like healthcare coverage it helps to maintain broad public support for the overall democratic system. Everyone is unhappy for different reasons, but not unhappy enough to revolt over it.
  - jeromegv 3y ago
    Americans talks as if their democracy was fine, that the last president didn’t spend months telling everyone the results were fake and how a revolt happened on January 6th. It’s not a frustrating outcome of democracy. It’s a failure of democracy with one party trying to take over and destroy all other opinions by all means necessary, which includes an open revolt and election stealing.
    - skulk 3y ago
      Further in this direction, currently the lower house is being held hostage by a small group of extremists from the majority party who have no interest in governance. I don't actually share the opinion that this is a breakdown of democracy per se, but rather believe that this is democracy working as intended (by a certain few wealthy people).
      - dr-detroit 3y ago
        [dead]
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      If the lights stay on and food stays on grocery store shelves and people aren't getting dragged out of their homes by revolutionary militias, then democracy is still succeeding in broadly keeping the peace and keeping things humming along. If half the population wants to believe stupid conspiracy theories about the last election, that's fine so long as most of them don't act on it. So long as their attempted coups or revolutions die in the crib before they can do much damage, then democracy is working. > It’s a failure of democracy with one party trying to take over and destroy all other opinions by all means necessary Lots of people talk shit but almost everybody is still going about their daily lives in a normal civil manner. Obviously the state of American democracy could be better, but don't pronounce the patient dead just because he tripped and got his knee bloodied.
      - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
        How about if the patient tripped, knocked their head on the sidewalk, and has started believing some very strange and scary and stupid stuff?
- toolz 3y ago
  If you can't provide better than "a somewhat better" system at continually growing extraordinary costs[1] then you have no business doing anything. Pointing fingers is getting us nowhere. Someone needs to behave rationally and neither side is willing to do that. I don't really care who the worst offender is, we just need someone to step up and not be an offender [1] https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spending-healthcare-changed-time/#Total%20national%20health%20expenditures,%20US%20$%20per%20capita,%201970-2021 https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spe...
  - isk517 3y ago
    The problem is in a democracy someone stepping up does nothing, you need a solid majority of people to step up which is were the problems begin unfortunately.
- spiralx 3y ago
  The creation and implementation of the Massachusetts health care system had little to do with Mitt Romney other than him trying to outdo Senate President Robert Travaglini's initial proposal for reducing the number of uninsured people in the state and later attempting to veto parts of the proposed legislation such as making employers contribute towards their employees coverage, letting legal immigrants with jobs use the system and providing dental care to those in the lowest income brackets. "Romneycare" was a pejorative term used by other Republicans to attack Romney when he was going to run for President. The group responsible for the actual legislation was the Affordable Care Today Coalition which consisted of a lot of different interests: https://www.wbur.org/news/2007/04/10/affordability-clash-wbur https://www.wbur.org/news/2007/04/10/affordability-clash-wbu...
- paulusthe 3y ago
  The public option was killed by Arlen Specter, a Democrat, who refused to go along with the other Democrats. Rs were united, which made his defection critical. Kind of like how Joe Manchin throws a wrench in the works every few years in return for oil and coal extraction benefits for his company in WV
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    One person cannot kill legislation in the Senate, it takes 51 nay votes.
  - nl 3y ago
    Blaming one dumb Democrat when all the other party voted against it seems odd. To be clear: he shouldn't have voted against it. But if the Republicans wanted good outcomes neither should any of them.
  - js2 3y ago
    It was Joe Lieberman (and 40 Republicans), not Arlen Specter, who killed the public option: https://publicintegrity.org/health/elimination-of-public-option-threw-consumers-to-the-insurance-wolves/ https://publicintegrity.org/health/elimination-of-public-opt... https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2009/10/did-sen-joe-lieberman-just-kill-the-public-option.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2009/10/did-sen-joe-lieb...
smolder 3y ago
> both ideologies have failed miserably. I think it's a mistake to view the two parties as representing two distinct ideologies, and further to believe either parties rhetoric about what constitutes their ideology. Most of the game of US politics is to see how many terrible/unpopular deeds you can perpetrate against the public on behalf of the moneyed interests (not voters) that supported your campaign without losing votes to the opposition. Wedge issues and propaganda keep people voting on party lines for candidates that only occasionally act in the majority interest of their own voters, let alone the interests of the greater public.
- jewayne 3y ago
  There are good, well-meaning politicians out there. They are often the ones most vilified by the media. The chief enablers of bad politicians are people who refuse to discern between good politicians and bad politicians. Enablers like you.
  - smolder 3y ago
    I can understand why you would take me for an apathetic non-participant given my cynical comment, but I do agree that there are well-meaning people trying to be more than cogs and I do try to discern the difference.
jewayne 3y ago
[flagged]
- lotsoweiners 3y ago
  Who made you the one in charge of what is considered “progress”? Roughly half the country seems to have an opposite opinion about this.

rayiner 3y ago

[flagged]

selimthegrim 3y ago
I moved to Louisiana because I was recruited here and because my cousins live here. Do you think everyone moves for purely monetary reasons?
- rayiner 3y ago
  When those individual reasons lead to a net migration from blue states to red states (e.g. more people being recruited in red states in the aggregate than in blue states) that’s meaningful. I’ve got some cousins in DFW now and they love it. One, after studying in Queens, is marveling at how “everything is bigger in Texas.” They move for jobs and schools and neighborhood safety; same reason my parents immigrated to red state Virginia instead of blue state Maryland. (Then they helped turn Virginia into a blue state and are now surprised at e.g. democrats trying to “equity” TJ.) I think your point even cuts in the opposite direction. The Bangladeshis I know who moved to Queens did so not because they think New York City is great, but because of the large community of other Bangladeshis. Most of the folks who could afford it migrated out to purple Long Island, etc.
  - dctoedt 3y ago
    Another possibility: Blue states got so expensive precisely because so many people wanted to live there and consequently moved there — supply and demand, etc. And so, when opportunities opened up in red states, it made sense for some of the newly-dissatisfied blue-staters to relocate there. Yeah, they might well gradually turn some of those "nice" red states purple, or even blue — c'est la vie.

gmadsen 3y ago

for what its worth, the vast majority of republican senators are ivy league educated lawyers... just like the democrats. Its too simplistic to boils views you disagree with to "dumb"

dude187 3y ago

> I hope these bigots continue to be evil and dumb, if they get smart then we're really in for a bad time. I love the irony in your bigoted comment.