3 ms·
Care to elaborate on what points you're saying are strawmans? Sure it's a gizmodo piece, written in the typical style, but that doesn't preclude it from making
by treyd 3y ago
Care to elaborate on what points you're saying are strawmans? Sure it's a gizmodo piece, written in the typical style, but that doesn't preclude it from making legitimate criticisms.
- yanderekko 3y ago>Andreessen’s newly espoused ideology did not spring up in a vacuum. Instead, it’s part of a broader movement that seeks to take all the guardrails off of technological development and push forward with “progress,” whatever the cost may be. Pretty clear strawman starting at the third paragraph. I'm sure we could dig up many more. This article is just a snarky rant. Embarassing.
- chaps 3y agoHow is that a strawman?
- Supermancho 3y ago> a broader movement that seeks to take all the guardrails off of technological development and push forward with “progress,” whatever the cost may be. The manifesto starts with this as a defining motif. Growth is life, no-growth is death. Homeostasis be damned!
- yanderekko 3y agoDo you seriously think that Andreesen would advocate for technological progress regardless of an arbitrarily high cost to human welfare?
- chaps 3y agoWhen he's one of the biggest backers of the surveillance state and is advocating for even more of that.. yep. I do. I'll raise a strawman of my own: pretty indicative to see one of the co-authors of the Fascist Manifesto listed in Andreessen's list of "patron saints". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_Manifesto https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_Manifesto
- plorkyeran 3y agoYes? I think that's pretty clearly what he's advocating in his manifesto that we're discussing.
- fdschoeneman 3y agoThanks for the assist, amigo
- defrost 3y agoThe quote given isn't a strawman though, it's a perfectly valid summary of just a few points from the actual manifesto: Techno-Optimists believe that societies, like sharks, grow or die. We believe growth is progress – leading to vitality, expansion of life, increasing knowledge, higher well being. We agree with Paul Collier when he says, “Economic growth is not a cure-all, but lack of growth is a kill-all.” ... Our enemy is corruption, regulatory capture, monopolies, cartels. https://a16z.com/the-techno-optimist-manifesto/ https://a16z.com/the-techno-optimist-manifesto/ It's all in for unlimited growth, unlimited consumption, unlimited population, zero regulation, magic free market will fix things. You can argue for or against that vision, but you can't claim that the above is not his manifesto.
- fdschoeneman 3y agoIt's very clearly a distortion and not a valid summary of the manifest. Monopolies and captured regulators are not the same thing as "guardrails" in the authors summary. You may benefit from reading about what straw man arguments are before commenting further.
- defrost 3y agoThat's quite the attitude you have there. You also might benefit from further education. I'd strongly suggest you start with reading the full manifesto and not rely on technical point scoring on the basis of short quotes.
- fdschoeneman 3y agoI did read the manifesto, and while we can all benefit from more education, you, specifically, would benefit from learning what a straw man is. Hint: All I have to do to prove the rebuttal relies on a straw man is to show that it mischaracterized or meaningfully distorts the ideas in the manifesto. I have done that.
- epgui 3y agoI agree with the general idea of the article (that MA is a silly goose), but even then it's pretty easy to see that the content of the article is not of the highest quality.
- Johanx64 3y agoThe article doesn't say much of anything at all, other than that the author really doesn't like Marc Andreesen, it makes that much really clear. It doesn't actually demonstrate how Marc is wrong about anything, it's sort off thought as a given I suppose. All it does it just amplifies my general distaste for so called "journalists".
- fdschoeneman 3y agoA straw man is a distorted or mischaracterized recapitulation of another person's argument. This distorted argument can then more easily be attacked. It's a very common way for politicians, ideologues, and other dumb people to argue. Sometimes, fair or unfair, a straw man argument can even be effective at winning over a crowd. In this case the writer is distorting what Andreesson wrote in order to attack it. Here's an example: "...it’s part of a broader movement that seeks to take all the guardrails off of technological development and push forward with “progress,” whatever the cost may be." One thing I can say with almost 100% certainty - even though I have not read the manifesto -- is that Andreesson would never make such a stupid argument. Only an idiot would make such a dumb and absolutist argument, and only a politician or other dishonest person would try to assign such a dumb argument to her ideological opponent. I've no doubt that readers of gizmodo, big government socialists, and many of their fellow travelers found this piece and it's writer to be a fresh new voice for the deep state and managerial classes. But I'm underwhelmed.
- chaps 3y agoHow can you call it a strawman if you haven't read the manifesto that the supposed strawman is for? Doesn't that make anything you say about the manifesto an accidental strawman because your, apparently intentional, lack of reading distorts your own arguments in order to convince others? Or at least make it indistinguishable from a strawman? Just go read the damn thing, friend. Sheesh.
- fdschoeneman 3y agoI don't know you and I'm not your friend. I have since read the manifesto and while it was always obvious even without reading the manifesto that the author of this piece distorted it, I can now say for sure that he distorted it. It's a straw man.
- chaps 3y agoThanks for reading it, friend. Love and kisses, and I hope your family is doing well in these hard times. <3