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Hell, I work for a charging company, and I'm buying ICE. Of course I want a truck that can haul an RV, and I don't want to spend 60 grand for it. But even if I

Hell, I work for a charging company, and I'm buying ICE. Of course I want a truck that can haul an RV, and I don't want to spend 60 grand for it. But even if I was buying a regular car, it'd be used half the time for high elevation cold weather hikes, and I don't want to sit around for an hour charging when driving long distance. Let's face it, EVs mostly make sense for around-town driving. Rural people are gonna drive any ICE vehicle they can into the dirt until their prices go up so high that EVs are the economical choice.

stetrain 3y ago
EVs have some advantages at higher elevations since they don't lose power like combustion engines do. They're great with large elevation changes as well due to the power regen on the downhill legs. If the distances are pushing things too far for current EVs I feel you, and there are a lot of places still with limited charging access.
- atomicUpdate 3y ago
  > EVs have some advantages at higher elevations since they don't lose power like combustion engines do. That’s somewhat true, if you ignore the “cold weather” part. Many (most?) new cars are turbocharged though, which also compensates for the higher altitude. Combine that with the fact most people don’t live in the mountains, and it’s likely range can become an issue in the winter.
  - stetrain 3y ago
    Yes, cold weather can reduce range. A lot of newer EVs use heat pumps which help with that efficiency. It all depends on distances and charger availability. If you have home charging and go on hikes in cold mountain weather within a ~100mi radius of home, or a fast charging station, you're probably fine with a lot of EVs on the market.
    - 0xbadcafebee 3y ago
      The next aspect is capability. 4wd/awd is nice, but in winter on mountain trails you want ground clearance too. And finally, price is a big part of it. Some of us don't want to be saddled with a 15 year payment and interest, on top of the premium you still pay in this economy for any car. Used cars can be had for a 10th of the cost of new, and EVs are even more expensive. Why buy EV at all when ICE is cheaper? For a "regular" consumer car, EVs can be price competitive, and would have been really competitive back in the days of the big rebates. But today, more capable EVs are quite a bit more than ICE. In 10 years hopefully offroad and heavy-duty EVs will be cheaper (and more available - I don't see any F350/F450/F550 EVs). But today there isn't really an option.
      - stetrain 3y ago
        Of course. There are some very off-road capable EVs (check out Rivian) but they are pricey. Lower prices requires scaling up mass production of batteries and cars which is what is happening. Gas cars have had a century of mass production economies of scale to reach their current production efficiency. And generally cars do not come used and depreciated from the factory, so that market will develop over time. As will charging infrastructure, which is expanding rapidly through lot of public and private investment over the next few years.
wink 3y ago
I guess it depends on your definition of rural. Here in southern Germany that is mostly "not far from a bigger town" but still enough space for a house with a garage and the ability to charge. Even if you manage to have a house in a city, a garage is not a given and street parking is very common. (i.e. Munich to Salzburg is 150km which sounds like the worst case, regular 10-50km drives seem much more common). (And yes, I know the article is about the US, I'm just saying that even something that might make sense in one place doesn't mean it's true elsewhere, I imagine New England to be about the same disparity)

stetrain 3y ago

EVs have some advantages at higher elevations since they don't lose power like combustion engines do. They're great with large elevation changes as well due to the power regen on the downhill legs. If the distances are pushing things too far for current EVs I feel you, and there are a lot of places still with limited charging access.

atomicUpdate 3y ago
> EVs have some advantages at higher elevations since they don't lose power like combustion engines do. That’s somewhat true, if you ignore the “cold weather” part. Many (most?) new cars are turbocharged though, which also compensates for the higher altitude. Combine that with the fact most people don’t live in the mountains, and it’s likely range can become an issue in the winter.
- stetrain 3y ago
  Yes, cold weather can reduce range. A lot of newer EVs use heat pumps which help with that efficiency. It all depends on distances and charger availability. If you have home charging and go on hikes in cold mountain weather within a ~100mi radius of home, or a fast charging station, you're probably fine with a lot of EVs on the market.
  - 0xbadcafebee 3y ago
    The next aspect is capability. 4wd/awd is nice, but in winter on mountain trails you want ground clearance too. And finally, price is a big part of it. Some of us don't want to be saddled with a 15 year payment and interest, on top of the premium you still pay in this economy for any car. Used cars can be had for a 10th of the cost of new, and EVs are even more expensive. Why buy EV at all when ICE is cheaper? For a "regular" consumer car, EVs can be price competitive, and would have been really competitive back in the days of the big rebates. But today, more capable EVs are quite a bit more than ICE. In 10 years hopefully offroad and heavy-duty EVs will be cheaper (and more available - I don't see any F350/F450/F550 EVs). But today there isn't really an option.
    - stetrain 3y ago
      Of course. There are some very off-road capable EVs (check out Rivian) but they are pricey. Lower prices requires scaling up mass production of batteries and cars which is what is happening. Gas cars have had a century of mass production economies of scale to reach their current production efficiency. And generally cars do not come used and depreciated from the factory, so that market will develop over time. As will charging infrastructure, which is expanding rapidly through lot of public and private investment over the next few years.

wink 3y ago

I guess it depends on your definition of rural. Here in southern Germany that is mostly "not far from a bigger town" but still enough space for a house with a garage and the ability to charge. Even if you manage to have a house in a city, a garage is not a given and street parking is very common. (i.e. Munich to Salzburg is 150km which sounds like the worst case, regular 10-50km drives seem much more common). (And yes, I know the article is about the US, I'm just saying that even something that might make sense in one place doesn't mean it's true elsewhere, I imagine New England to be about the same disparity)