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I'm still not sure what Tesla gain from opening up SuperCharger for competitors. The no.1 reason people choose Tesla is because of the wide Supercharger networ

I'm still not sure what Tesla gain from opening up SuperCharger for competitors. The no.1 reason people choose Tesla is because of the wide Supercharger network.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Revenue. Automakers did not build their own networks, so they must now contribute to have access to something required to encourage EV sales. Gas stations (very roughly speaking! lots of Superchargers are colocated at grocery stores, malls, and other places humans can comfortably dwell for 15-30 min) don't want to front the hundreds of thousands of dollars per station for the equipment, so Tesla did. Paid for out of Model S and X margins early on, and more recently through profits from total sales. Remember, fuel sales are razor thin margins, pennies per gallon. The profit is on the snacks in the gas station store. Similar with fast DC charging, it is not a profit center due to demand charges (utility charges for pulling megawatts of power on demand) and charging infra capex [1] [2] [3]. But you must have this network to soothe range anxiety, as non Supercharger networks in the US are frankly garbage (as the Dept of Energy Secretary recently discovered on a PR EV roadtrip [4]). > “To dive deeper into this sum-of-the-parts valuation, we modeled & projected out Tesla’s supercharger network, taking into account access & revenues from other OEMs using stations across the United States. Ultimately, we estimate that Tesla’s supercharger business will be roughly 3%-6% of total revenues, translating to a $10 billion – $20 billion business by 2030.” [5] [1] https://www.mckinsey.com/features/mckinsey-center-for-future-mobility/our-insights/can-public-ev-fast-charging-stations-be-profitable-in-the-united-states https://www.mckinsey.com/features/mckinsey-center-for-future... ("Can public EV fast-charging stations be profitable in the United States?") [2] https://www.utilitydive.com/news/nearly-all-high-voltage-ev-charging-stations-lose-money-report/561026/ https://www.utilitydive.com/news/nearly-all-high-voltage-ev-... ("‘Nearly all’ high voltage EV charging stations lose money: Report") [3] https://seekingalpha.com/article/4497501-evgo-q4-earnings-not-a-go-yet-still-bleeding-too-much https://seekingalpha.com/article/4497501-evgo-q4-earnings-no... ("EVgo: Not A Go Yet, Still Bleeding Too Much") [4] https://www.npr.org/2023/09/10/1187224861/electric-vehicles-evs-cars-chargers-charging-energy-secretary-jennifer-granholm https://www.npr.org/2023/09/10/1187224861/electric-vehicles-... ("Electric cars have a road trip problem, even for the secretary of energy") [5] https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-20b-revenue-access-supercharger-nacs-deal-dan-ives/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-20b-revenue-access-supe... ("Tesla set to access up to $20B in revenues from Supercharger deals, Dan Ives says")
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  Also, not being abandoned. If the rest of the industry coalesced around CCS, Teslas would be at a disadvantage. Knowing the value of the Supercharger network, this guaranteed Teslas already on the road wouldn’t need an adaptor as often.
  - clouddrover 3y ago
    NACS is CCS with Tesla's plug on the end. The industry has coalesced around CCS.
    - Tempest1981 3y ago
      > NACS is CCS with Tesla's plug on the end This description confuses me... The DC+, DC-, and GND pins look to correspond. But NACS has 2 other pins. CCS1 has 4 other pins, and CCS2 has 6 other pins. I assume there is some protocol on the other pins. A supercharger can read the car's VIN, for example. And some power/charge-state negotiation? Is all of this excluded from the NACS spec? Do CSS1 and NACS have compatible negotiation protocols?
      - Tempest1981 3y ago
        I'm watching this now: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJOfyMCEzjQ&t=162s https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJOfyMCEzjQ&t=162s
      - SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
        The extra 2 pins on NACS are the ones that carry the CCS communications protocol. (CP and PP pins) The CCS1 has the CCS communication pins, a big DC- and DC+ pin, and also three extra pins for AC slow charging (Line 1, Neutral or Line 2, and Protective Earth/communications ground). CCS2 has the DC pins, the communication pins, AC lines 1, 2, and 3, AC neutral, and protective earth/communications ground. NACS has DC+, DC-, CP, PP, and a ground. Instead of sticking the bulky AC->DC converter in the car, NACS vehicles stick it in the charging station. That means an AC charger can't be as simple (it needs to convert to DC) but also that the car doesn't have to carry around something it only uses while charging.
mbernstein 3y ago
Energy stations (gas) pay pretty well. Right now Tesla owns most of the electric world and even if their cars fail could become a dominant energy provider.
- caf 3y ago
  Do they? I don't know what the situation is in North America, but here the business model of fuel stations is to sell fuel at near-zero margin and make the profit from impromptu sales to fuel customers in the attached convenience store.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    Margins are tight in the US, a typical gas station has margins comparable to a grocery store. Something in the neighborhood of 2% IIRC. Adding a convenience store definitely helps increase that.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Generally you aim for 1/3 gas, 1/3 tobacco, 1/3 snacks. While gas is by far the lowest margin, it is very high volume, with many people not buying anything else.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      Fast charging stations will likely eventually do even better with the required 15-30 minute stop encouragement toward a coffee or a snack.
      - bluGill 3y ago
        Probably, but since most charging will be at home, there will be a lot less total $ in play. Great gig if you can be on a route people travel long distances, but otherwise not much profit.
  - nomel 3y ago
    Wow, this is fascinating. > their net profit per gallon is around $0.03-$0.07–after factoring in costs like labor, utilities, insurance, and credit card transaction fees. [1] Average store sells 3000 gallons per day [2], meaning $90 to $210/day profit. [1] https://fortune.com/2022/08/09/energy-profit-margins-gas-stations-proof-fuel-retailers-high-gas-prices-alex-kinnier/ https://fortune.com/2022/08/09/energy-profit-margins-gas-sta... [2] https://www.convenience.org/Topics/Fuels/Who-Sells-Americas-Fuel https://www.convenience.org/Topics/Fuels/Who-Sells-Americas-...
xboxnolifes 3y ago
Tesla will never have 100% vehicle market share. Tesla benefits from there being a large network of superchargers. Having more vehicles support Superchargers will allow them to be viable in more places. More viable places for Superchargers means more superchargers, and more superchargers means more viable places for Teslas.
- MenhirMike 3y ago
  Could also be an interesting Pivot in the future - with more competition in the EV market (and a race to the bottom for pricing, combined with the need to get more and more batteries), maybe it's better for Tesla to get out of the car market (eventually) and into the "fuel" market.
  - XorNot 3y ago
    Tesla has overall build quality problems, but AFAIK their components for battery/powertrain and charging are all state of the art. So yeah, it's a viable pivot.
  - choudharism 3y ago
    The valuation gap between that Tesla and this Tesla would wipe the company out. Fuel (however good) is a commodity, and a commodity company which doesn't own its raw materials is not a trillion dollar company.
    - dv_dt 3y ago
      Tesla owns a solar cell and storage battery business. This is owning the vertical integration of EV fuel. You don’t need exclusive access to the Sun any more than an oil company needs to monopolize all oil fields to succeed.
    - scythe 3y ago
      Tesla's car business doesn't exactly justify their valuation either, certainly not with their recent decline in profit margin. A comparison to other manufacturers makes them look ridiculously overvalued. The explanation, to the extent there is one, probably has to do with a (real or perceived) moat of expertise surrounding EV and battery technology that may allow (???) future innovation/expansion into new markets. I'd say there's a large chance it's all hot air, but they've pulled several rabbits out of the hat already.
turtlebits 3y ago
Fast charging is relatively expensive. Cost per mile is close to filling up with gas. Where I live, they charge 4x what I pay to charge at home.
- adrianN 3y ago
  That makes sense, since fast charging is not supposed to be the default charging mode. Almost all charging will be slow charging.
dabinat 3y ago
Tesla was coming under pressure from the government and may have wanted to get ahead of potential regulation. Opening up their network also allows access to federal funding. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/02/15/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-new-standards-and-major-progress-for-a-made-in-america-national-network-of-electric-vehicle-chargers/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...
cavisne 3y ago
Billions in federal funding for charging stations (that they wouldn’t get if it was closed)
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
> I'm still not sure what Tesla gain from opening up SuperCharger for competitors. They can actually charge for charging (rather than giving it away), and lots of people will pay for it, it also adds to their network effect (more customers for charging = more charging stations they can build). I wouldn't be surprised if 10 years from now the US government will declare Tesla a charging monopoly and split it away from the car company.
- AdamJacobMuller 3y ago
  That would require some anticompetitive behavior, you can't simply split things up because they are a monopoly. Future behavior not-withstanding, Tesla will (correctly IMO) point at the opening up of NACS standard and the supercharger network as a defining anti-anti-competitive move.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    You can split them up if they become so successful that uncompetitive behavior just falls out of it. Like people who want to split away the app store from the iPhone (regardless of the fact that other phones and app stores exist: Apple's vertical closed ecosystem makes the iPhone more popular).
    - djbusby 3y ago
      More popular than what? Android is 70% global market share.
      - Guvante 3y ago
        Apple had a 75% market share of phones that cost $600 or more in 2022...
        pests 3y ago
        If you define your market small enough anything can be a monopoly. I bet Apple has a 95% market share on phones that cost more than $1500. I bet Google has 75% market share on phones less than $100. So what?
meowkit 3y ago
Vaguely sure that Musk commented on this. Tesla gains more from growing the EV market as a whole, and faster, than trying to dominate with proprietary technology.
pornel 3y ago
I think this stark advantage is mostly in the US, and mostly due to gross incompetence of Electrify America. In western Europe there are Ionity and Fastned networks that are pretty reliable and faster than v3 Superchargers. Non-Tesla charging is generally becoming competitive and usable. Tesla still can offer better UX in areas where they have a good coverage, but other manufacturers are catching up to that too. So maybe Tesla has realized their advantage won't last forever? Their first trial of opening up Superchargers was in the Netherlands, home of the Fastned network.
1970-01-01 3y ago
Don't underestimate the value of constant foot traffic. You are nearly forcing drivers to visit locations and stay there for at least 15 minutes. The final step is just getting them to take out their wallet.
- cmelbye 3y ago
  It's definitely odd to me that a lot of the superchargers I visit on trips have zero services nearby.
  - djbusby 3y ago
    Charge my car and sell me a latte!
    - hakfoo 3y ago
      I expected it to go in reverse. "Charge your car at the supermarket. If you spend $X with your loyalty-club card, we'll deduct $Y from the charging bill." The customer is captive for 15 minutes somewhere, but you can certainly give him reasons to choose to be captive for 15 minutes at your store. EV infrastructure is probably easier to deploy than gas, so I'd expect to see a lot of new and smaller-scale charging sites. Instead of four gas stations at the corner with 8-12 pumps each, every store in every strip mall on that corner will have 1 or 2 charging stands each. Part of me suspects this is why we're seeing an industry-wide attempt to make convenience marts less terrible (i. e. food you'd willingly buy). If you can no longer guarantee traffic from people fueling their vehicles, you have to raise the bar.
Dalewyn 3y ago
>I'm still not sure what Tesla gain from opening up SuperCharger for competitors. When there's a gold rush, you sell shovels and pickaxes.
jjtheblunt 3y ago
Cash flow?
jsjohnst 3y ago
> I'm still not sure what Tesla gain from opening up SuperCharger for competitors. 1) government funding to the tune of billions of dollars to build more superchargers 2) lucrative opportunity to sell more kWh at their super premium price point 3) further establish their leadership by forcing everyone else to follow them
HWR_14 3y ago
The US government was going to phase out the subsidies from Tesla and their charging network unless they switched to the new open standard. Cheaper and better for them to just get their installed connectors made into the standard.
nelsonic 3y ago
Tesla can become the de facto charging station for all EVs which at a 100% markup on each kWh sold is a substantially higher margin than selling vehicles. Think of how profitable the oil companies with gas stations are. Tesla SuperChargers are miles better than the competition. If people are already going to buy and EV from the legacy automaker because of design or brand loyalty, etc. Tesla might as well make recurring revenue on selling them the energy to charge. Yes, on the margin some people might prefer to buy a non-Tesla car if they know they can use the supercharger network, but the positive experience of the Tesla charger will influence more people to buy a Tesla vehicle. The only downside is if there are queues at the superchargers because too many non-Teslas are charging too slowly… But then, as others have said, it just creates an incentive for Tesla to build more chargers and capture more charging infrastructure market share.
- resolutebat 3y ago
  +1 to all that. Having experimented both with non-Tesla chargers and non-Tesla EVs, the Supercharger experience is just head and shoulders better. With a Tesla, plug in and go; with a non-Tesla at a Supercharger, select the bay from the app, plug in and go. But with non-Tesla chargers, half the time they're down or fully occupied because there's one or two stalls, not 4-96 like Superchargers. If you find a free one, you need to download some dinky app and validate your account and punch in your credit card details and then it fails half the time anyway. Gar!
  - Corrado 3y ago
    Your experience mirrors mine. On a recent trip to the UK we rented a Tesla Model 3 and the Supercharging experience was a breeze; no trouble at all. However, there was not a Supercharger near the hotel so I had to use another vendor and the experience was terrible. Not only did I have to download yet another app, I had to pre-load the account with money. That was even before having to find the charger, activate it, make sure it worked, change to the other one when it didn't work, etc. The whole experience was horrible and helped me understand why some people don't think electric cars will ever take off. In fact, I think that the non-Supercharging experience is so bad that it is actively harming EV adoption. So, the sooner that Supercharging can be adopted the better. NOTE: NACS is a charging standard and not limited to Tesla Superchargers. My hope is that when other companies (ChargePoint, EVAmerica, etc.) adopt the standard and start providing NACS charging locations they won't screw it up as badly as they have with CCS.
yieldcrv 3y ago
I dont buy Tesla because of too few variants in look I dont buy other EVs because of poor charging speed and poor charging network I will buy a luxury EV in 2025 because of this and look forward to using the existing supercharging network or expanded supercharging station via standard
kelnos 3y ago
Aside from the sweet sweet revenue, this feels like a preemptive regulation dodge. I don't think we as a society should allow closed charging networks. Imagine if the legacy car manufacturers could run gas stations that would turn away cars from other manufacturers. What a waste of space.
waynesonfire 3y ago
Tesla benefits in the short term because they already incorporate the charging technology which puts them ahead in the industry. In the long term, the entire industry benefits. This too is good for Tesla as it's a market leader and benefits if the industry grows. They have a strong incentive to continue to compete to gain market share as the pie gets bigger. This is also good for customers. An EV without a charging network is worthless, so I'm sure that a good charging narrative is important to a potential customer. But, it doesn't stop there. Teslas make very impressive cars and have innovated not just the drive train but how the car is made. For example, the cars do incredibly well in safety tests.
kemitche 3y ago
Some form of charging standard was coming. Tesla had two options: (1) push for NACS to be that standard, or (2) allow another standard to come into play. (2) would have been a terrible outcome for Tesla - all the money invested in existing stations, all existing cars, would have the "wrong" standard.

I'm still not sure what Tesla gain from opening up SuperCharger for competitors. The no.1 reason people choose Tesla is because of the wide Supercharger network.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Revenue. Automakers did not build their own networks, so they must now contribute to have access to something required to encourage EV sales. Gas stations (very roughly speaking! lots of Superchargers are colocated at grocery stores, malls, and other places humans can comfortably dwell for 15-30 min) don't want to front the hundreds of thousands of dollars per station for the equipment, so Tesla did. Paid for out of Model S and X margins early on, and more recently through profits from total sales. Remember, fuel sales are razor thin margins, pennies per gallon. The profit is on the snacks in the gas station store. Similar with fast DC charging, it is not a profit center due to demand charges (utility charges for pulling megawatts of power on demand) and charging infra capex [1] [2] [3]. But you must have this network to soothe range anxiety, as non Supercharger networks in the US are frankly garbage (as the Dept of Energy Secretary recently discovered on a PR EV roadtrip [4]). > “To dive deeper into this sum-of-the-parts valuation, we modeled & projected out Tesla’s supercharger network, taking into account access & revenues from other OEMs using stations across the United States. Ultimately, we estimate that Tesla’s supercharger business will be roughly 3%-6% of total revenues, translating to a $10 billion – $20 billion business by 2030.” [5] [1] https://www.mckinsey.com/features/mckinsey-center-for-future-mobility/our-insights/can-public-ev-fast-charging-stations-be-profitable-in-the-united-states https://www.mckinsey.com/features/mckinsey-center-for-future... ("Can public EV fast-charging stations be profitable in the United States?") [2] https://www.utilitydive.com/news/nearly-all-high-voltage-ev-charging-stations-lose-money-report/561026/ https://www.utilitydive.com/news/nearly-all-high-voltage-ev-... ("‘Nearly all’ high voltage EV charging stations lose money: Report") [3] https://seekingalpha.com/article/4497501-evgo-q4-earnings-not-a-go-yet-still-bleeding-too-much https://seekingalpha.com/article/4497501-evgo-q4-earnings-no... ("EVgo: Not A Go Yet, Still Bleeding Too Much") [4] https://www.npr.org/2023/09/10/1187224861/electric-vehicles-evs-cars-chargers-charging-energy-secretary-jennifer-granholm https://www.npr.org/2023/09/10/1187224861/electric-vehicles-... ("Electric cars have a road trip problem, even for the secretary of energy") [5] https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-20b-revenue-access-supercharger-nacs-deal-dan-ives/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-20b-revenue-access-supe... ("Tesla set to access up to $20B in revenues from Supercharger deals, Dan Ives says")

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
Also, not being abandoned. If the rest of the industry coalesced around CCS, Teslas would be at a disadvantage. Knowing the value of the Supercharger network, this guaranteed Teslas already on the road wouldn’t need an adaptor as often.
- clouddrover 3y ago
  NACS is CCS with Tesla's plug on the end. The industry has coalesced around CCS.
  - Tempest1981 3y ago
    > NACS is CCS with Tesla's plug on the end This description confuses me... The DC+, DC-, and GND pins look to correspond. But NACS has 2 other pins. CCS1 has 4 other pins, and CCS2 has 6 other pins. I assume there is some protocol on the other pins. A supercharger can read the car's VIN, for example. And some power/charge-state negotiation? Is all of this excluded from the NACS spec? Do CSS1 and NACS have compatible negotiation protocols?
    - Tempest1981 3y ago
      I'm watching this now: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJOfyMCEzjQ&t=162s https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJOfyMCEzjQ&t=162s
    - SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
      The extra 2 pins on NACS are the ones that carry the CCS communications protocol. (CP and PP pins) The CCS1 has the CCS communication pins, a big DC- and DC+ pin, and also three extra pins for AC slow charging (Line 1, Neutral or Line 2, and Protective Earth/communications ground). CCS2 has the DC pins, the communication pins, AC lines 1, 2, and 3, AC neutral, and protective earth/communications ground. NACS has DC+, DC-, CP, PP, and a ground. Instead of sticking the bulky AC->DC converter in the car, NACS vehicles stick it in the charging station. That means an AC charger can't be as simple (it needs to convert to DC) but also that the car doesn't have to carry around something it only uses while charging.

mbernstein 3y ago

Energy stations (gas) pay pretty well. Right now Tesla owns most of the electric world and even if their cars fail could become a dominant energy provider.

caf 3y ago
Do they? I don't know what the situation is in North America, but here the business model of fuel stations is to sell fuel at near-zero margin and make the profit from impromptu sales to fuel customers in the attached convenience store.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  Margins are tight in the US, a typical gas station has margins comparable to a grocery store. Something in the neighborhood of 2% IIRC. Adding a convenience store definitely helps increase that.
- bluGill 3y ago
  Generally you aim for 1/3 gas, 1/3 tobacco, 1/3 snacks. While gas is by far the lowest margin, it is very high volume, with many people not buying anything else.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Fast charging stations will likely eventually do even better with the required 15-30 minute stop encouragement toward a coffee or a snack.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      Probably, but since most charging will be at home, there will be a lot less total $ in play. Great gig if you can be on a route people travel long distances, but otherwise not much profit.
- nomel 3y ago
  Wow, this is fascinating. > their net profit per gallon is around $0.03-$0.07–after factoring in costs like labor, utilities, insurance, and credit card transaction fees. [1] Average store sells 3000 gallons per day [2], meaning $90 to $210/day profit. [1] https://fortune.com/2022/08/09/energy-profit-margins-gas-stations-proof-fuel-retailers-high-gas-prices-alex-kinnier/ https://fortune.com/2022/08/09/energy-profit-margins-gas-sta... [2] https://www.convenience.org/Topics/Fuels/Who-Sells-Americas-Fuel https://www.convenience.org/Topics/Fuels/Who-Sells-Americas-...

xboxnolifes 3y ago

Tesla will never have 100% vehicle market share. Tesla benefits from there being a large network of superchargers. Having more vehicles support Superchargers will allow them to be viable in more places. More viable places for Superchargers means more superchargers, and more superchargers means more viable places for Teslas.

MenhirMike 3y ago
Could also be an interesting Pivot in the future - with more competition in the EV market (and a race to the bottom for pricing, combined with the need to get more and more batteries), maybe it's better for Tesla to get out of the car market (eventually) and into the "fuel" market.
- XorNot 3y ago
  Tesla has overall build quality problems, but AFAIK their components for battery/powertrain and charging are all state of the art. So yeah, it's a viable pivot.
- choudharism 3y ago
  The valuation gap between that Tesla and this Tesla would wipe the company out. Fuel (however good) is a commodity, and a commodity company which doesn't own its raw materials is not a trillion dollar company.
  - dv_dt 3y ago
    Tesla owns a solar cell and storage battery business. This is owning the vertical integration of EV fuel. You don’t need exclusive access to the Sun any more than an oil company needs to monopolize all oil fields to succeed.
  - scythe 3y ago
    Tesla's car business doesn't exactly justify their valuation either, certainly not with their recent decline in profit margin. A comparison to other manufacturers makes them look ridiculously overvalued. The explanation, to the extent there is one, probably has to do with a (real or perceived) moat of expertise surrounding EV and battery technology that may allow (???) future innovation/expansion into new markets. I'd say there's a large chance it's all hot air, but they've pulled several rabbits out of the hat already.

turtlebits 3y ago

Fast charging is relatively expensive. Cost per mile is close to filling up with gas. Where I live, they charge 4x what I pay to charge at home.

adrianN 3y ago
That makes sense, since fast charging is not supposed to be the default charging mode. Almost all charging will be slow charging.

dabinat 3y ago

Tesla was coming under pressure from the government and may have wanted to get ahead of potential regulation. Opening up their network also allows access to federal funding. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/02/15/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-new-standards-and-major-progress-for-a-made-in-america-national-network-of-electric-vehicle-chargers/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...

cavisne 3y ago

Billions in federal funding for charging stations (that they wouldn’t get if it was closed)

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

> I'm still not sure what Tesla gain from opening up SuperCharger for competitors. They can actually charge for charging (rather than giving it away), and lots of people will pay for it, it also adds to their network effect (more customers for charging = more charging stations they can build). I wouldn't be surprised if 10 years from now the US government will declare Tesla a charging monopoly and split it away from the car company.

AdamJacobMuller 3y ago
That would require some anticompetitive behavior, you can't simply split things up because they are a monopoly. Future behavior not-withstanding, Tesla will (correctly IMO) point at the opening up of NACS standard and the supercharger network as a defining anti-anti-competitive move.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  You can split them up if they become so successful that uncompetitive behavior just falls out of it. Like people who want to split away the app store from the iPhone (regardless of the fact that other phones and app stores exist: Apple's vertical closed ecosystem makes the iPhone more popular).
  - djbusby 3y ago
    More popular than what? Android is 70% global market share.
    - Guvante 3y ago
      Apple had a 75% market share of phones that cost $600 or more in 2022...
      - pests 3y ago
        If you define your market small enough anything can be a monopoly. I bet Apple has a 95% market share on phones that cost more than $1500. I bet Google has 75% market share on phones less than $100. So what?

meowkit 3y ago

Vaguely sure that Musk commented on this. Tesla gains more from growing the EV market as a whole, and faster, than trying to dominate with proprietary technology.

pornel 3y ago

I think this stark advantage is mostly in the US, and mostly due to gross incompetence of Electrify America. In western Europe there are Ionity and Fastned networks that are pretty reliable and faster than v3 Superchargers. Non-Tesla charging is generally becoming competitive and usable. Tesla still can offer better UX in areas where they have a good coverage, but other manufacturers are catching up to that too. So maybe Tesla has realized their advantage won't last forever? Their first trial of opening up Superchargers was in the Netherlands, home of the Fastned network.

1970-01-01 3y ago

Don't underestimate the value of constant foot traffic. You are nearly forcing drivers to visit locations and stay there for at least 15 minutes. The final step is just getting them to take out their wallet.

cmelbye 3y ago
It's definitely odd to me that a lot of the superchargers I visit on trips have zero services nearby.
- djbusby 3y ago
  Charge my car and sell me a latte!
  - hakfoo 3y ago
    I expected it to go in reverse. "Charge your car at the supermarket. If you spend $X with your loyalty-club card, we'll deduct $Y from the charging bill." The customer is captive for 15 minutes somewhere, but you can certainly give him reasons to choose to be captive for 15 minutes at your store. EV infrastructure is probably easier to deploy than gas, so I'd expect to see a lot of new and smaller-scale charging sites. Instead of four gas stations at the corner with 8-12 pumps each, every store in every strip mall on that corner will have 1 or 2 charging stands each. Part of me suspects this is why we're seeing an industry-wide attempt to make convenience marts less terrible (i. e. food you'd willingly buy). If you can no longer guarantee traffic from people fueling their vehicles, you have to raise the bar.

Dalewyn 3y ago

>I'm still not sure what Tesla gain from opening up SuperCharger for competitors. When there's a gold rush, you sell shovels and pickaxes.

jjtheblunt 3y ago

Cash flow?

jsjohnst 3y ago

> I'm still not sure what Tesla gain from opening up SuperCharger for competitors. 1) government funding to the tune of billions of dollars to build more superchargers 2) lucrative opportunity to sell more kWh at their super premium price point 3) further establish their leadership by forcing everyone else to follow them

HWR_14 3y ago

The US government was going to phase out the subsidies from Tesla and their charging network unless they switched to the new open standard. Cheaper and better for them to just get their installed connectors made into the standard.

nelsonic 3y ago

Tesla can become the de facto charging station for all EVs which at a 100% markup on each kWh sold is a substantially higher margin than selling vehicles. Think of how profitable the oil companies with gas stations are. Tesla SuperChargers are miles better than the competition. If people are already going to buy and EV from the legacy automaker because of design or brand loyalty, etc. Tesla might as well make recurring revenue on selling them the energy to charge. Yes, on the margin some people might prefer to buy a non-Tesla car if they know they can use the supercharger network, but the positive experience of the Tesla charger will influence more people to buy a Tesla vehicle. The only downside is if there are queues at the superchargers because too many non-Teslas are charging too slowly… But then, as others have said, it just creates an incentive for Tesla to build more chargers and capture more charging infrastructure market share.

resolutebat 3y ago
+1 to all that. Having experimented both with non-Tesla chargers and non-Tesla EVs, the Supercharger experience is just head and shoulders better. With a Tesla, plug in and go; with a non-Tesla at a Supercharger, select the bay from the app, plug in and go. But with non-Tesla chargers, half the time they're down or fully occupied because there's one or two stalls, not 4-96 like Superchargers. If you find a free one, you need to download some dinky app and validate your account and punch in your credit card details and then it fails half the time anyway. Gar!
- Corrado 3y ago
  Your experience mirrors mine. On a recent trip to the UK we rented a Tesla Model 3 and the Supercharging experience was a breeze; no trouble at all. However, there was not a Supercharger near the hotel so I had to use another vendor and the experience was terrible. Not only did I have to download yet another app, I had to pre-load the account with money. That was even before having to find the charger, activate it, make sure it worked, change to the other one when it didn't work, etc. The whole experience was horrible and helped me understand why some people don't think electric cars will ever take off. In fact, I think that the non-Supercharging experience is so bad that it is actively harming EV adoption. So, the sooner that Supercharging can be adopted the better. NOTE: NACS is a charging standard and not limited to Tesla Superchargers. My hope is that when other companies (ChargePoint, EVAmerica, etc.) adopt the standard and start providing NACS charging locations they won't screw it up as badly as they have with CCS.

yieldcrv 3y ago

I dont buy Tesla because of too few variants in look I dont buy other EVs because of poor charging speed and poor charging network I will buy a luxury EV in 2025 because of this and look forward to using the existing supercharging network or expanded supercharging station via standard

kelnos 3y ago

Aside from the sweet sweet revenue, this feels like a preemptive regulation dodge. I don't think we as a society should allow closed charging networks. Imagine if the legacy car manufacturers could run gas stations that would turn away cars from other manufacturers. What a waste of space.

waynesonfire 3y ago

Tesla benefits in the short term because they already incorporate the charging technology which puts them ahead in the industry. In the long term, the entire industry benefits. This too is good for Tesla as it's a market leader and benefits if the industry grows. They have a strong incentive to continue to compete to gain market share as the pie gets bigger. This is also good for customers. An EV without a charging network is worthless, so I'm sure that a good charging narrative is important to a potential customer. But, it doesn't stop there. Teslas make very impressive cars and have innovated not just the drive train but how the car is made. For example, the cars do incredibly well in safety tests.

kemitche 3y ago

Some form of charging standard was coming. Tesla had two options: (1) push for NACS to be that standard, or (2) allow another standard to come into play. (2) would have been a terrible outcome for Tesla - all the money invested in existing stations, all existing cars, would have the "wrong" standard.