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Many psychedelic-era personas expressed this sentiment as well: you don't need psychedelic drugs to reach that state, you could also spend 10 years practicing m

Many psychedelic-era personas expressed this sentiment as well: you don't need psychedelic drugs to reach that state, you could also spend 10 years practicing meditation daily. This view ignores the major application of these substances. Ketamine-induced self-therapy is accessible instantly and acts as a major reset. When you are experiencing long-term depression and/or anxiety, the advice to "just meditate" or do deep introspection is wildly counter-productive. Depressive state is very frequently accompanied by an unhealthy focus on the internal voice and on over-analyzing own life/motivations/purpose/etc. Having an "introspection session" in this state is a borderline dangerous advice.

omginternets 3y ago
I just want to endorse this comment. Psychadelic drugs have a miraculous property: they elicit transcendent states reliably. Eat the mushroom and you will experience it. There are corresponding risks to this, of course, but that's the flip side of their utility as a (sharp) tool.
- justatdotin 3y ago
  these tools allow exploration of not just introspection but also states that otherwise belong safely behind a closed door. Yes I might actually enjoy having countless shards of the universe's ideas slicing through my ego for a few hours at night over the weekend; no I never want that to experience that during a workday.
  - Muromec 3y ago
    Working is overrated and may be part of the problem of having depression in the first place. Maybe we are solving the wrong problem after all. Depression is a signal, it’s evolution whispering that life sucks in some major way. Throwing SSRI at problem silences this voice. But maybe it does and psychodelics fix that, instead of suppressing alerts indefinitely.
    - sitkack 3y ago
      > Working is overrated and may be part of the problem of having depression in the first place. Not just overrated, but most likely the core of the problem. It displaces so much and returns so little.
  - omginternets 3y ago
    I mean, you don't have to do everything all the time. I certainly don't feel any transcendence right now. I'm not sure what your point is, beyond perhaps "don't do drugs all the time?" If that's it, I don't think anyone here would object.
vlunkr 3y ago
Meditation/introspection and a depressive state are not the same thing. Calling that dangerous is an overreaction IMO.
theGnuMe 3y ago
Meditation is really about changing your life. It’s a daily practice like exercising. It’s taking action and doing the work. So it probably offers longer relief from depression since it is a life change.

omginternets 3y ago

I just want to endorse this comment. Psychadelic drugs have a miraculous property: they elicit transcendent states reliably. Eat the mushroom and you will experience it. There are corresponding risks to this, of course, but that's the flip side of their utility as a (sharp) tool.

justatdotin 3y ago
these tools allow exploration of not just introspection but also states that otherwise belong safely behind a closed door. Yes I might actually enjoy having countless shards of the universe's ideas slicing through my ego for a few hours at night over the weekend; no I never want that to experience that during a workday.
- Muromec 3y ago
  Working is overrated and may be part of the problem of having depression in the first place. Maybe we are solving the wrong problem after all. Depression is a signal, it’s evolution whispering that life sucks in some major way. Throwing SSRI at problem silences this voice. But maybe it does and psychodelics fix that, instead of suppressing alerts indefinitely.
  - sitkack 3y ago
    > Working is overrated and may be part of the problem of having depression in the first place. Not just overrated, but most likely the core of the problem. It displaces so much and returns so little.
- omginternets 3y ago
  I mean, you don't have to do everything all the time. I certainly don't feel any transcendence right now. I'm not sure what your point is, beyond perhaps "don't do drugs all the time?" If that's it, I don't think anyone here would object.

vlunkr 3y ago

Meditation/introspection and a depressive state are not the same thing. Calling that dangerous is an overreaction IMO.

theGnuMe 3y ago

Meditation is really about changing your life. It’s a daily practice like exercising. It’s taking action and doing the work. So it probably offers longer relief from depression since it is a life change.