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Objective-C programmers say this, but I note that I've never once heard a Swift developer complain that it's too hard to discover API interface or keep things n

Objective-C programmers say this, but I note that I've never once heard a Swift developer complain that it's too hard to discover API interface or keep things non-`public`.

jshier 3y ago
Only access control I wish Swift had is typeprivate so I could hide private things but make them available for subclasses (or perhaps protocol conformers). Unfortunately Apple has only added a package level so far, which seems fairly useless (you're either too big for it to be useful or too small to need it). Obj-C didn't really have ACLs at all, you just hid stuff in interfaces. Once found, those interfaces were no protection at all.
ninkendo 3y ago
> never once heard a Swift developer complain that it's too hard to discover API interface Xcode presents the equivalent of a “header” when you follow a symbol to a framework you don’t have the source for… it’s a swift file full of definitions only and no implementations. The compiler emits this for you automatically as a .swiftinterface file > or keep things non-`public` I definitely am a swift developer that would complain about this. It’s way too easy to be cavalier about using the “public” keyword and making things part of the public API when they probably shouldn’t be. It’s like engineers have muscle memory from Java and just type “public class” without really questioning why first.
- lapcat 3y ago
  > The compiler emits this for you automatically as a .swiftinterface file It's so incredibly slow, though, which is frustrating. It would be ok if only this were as instantaneous as checking a header file. Ironically, almost everything about "Swift" is slower than Objective-C.
ultrarunner 3y ago
Everyone's brain is probably different, but when I first started writing swift I definitely missed header files. When I switch back from a c project I miss them again.
pasc1878 3y ago
IDEs have improved so integration of Swift and searching is easy. Objective-C now could do without headers but I used it 25 years ago and having headers made life easier.
itsthejb 3y ago
In my current and previous job, we talked about (and partially implemented) low level “contract” modules in order to avoid linking (and building) the entire module in order to share behaviour That problem was already solved with header files; trivial to split interface from implementation, they’re just two different files. But sometime around the 90s, probably Java and this was deemed inconvenient. Now we’re trying to reinvent that same pattern

Objective-C programmers say this, but I note that I've never once heard a Swift developer complain that it's too hard to discover API interface or keep things non-`public`.

jshier 3y ago

Only access control I wish Swift had is typeprivate so I could hide private things but make them available for subclasses (or perhaps protocol conformers). Unfortunately Apple has only added a package level so far, which seems fairly useless (you're either too big for it to be useful or too small to need it). Obj-C didn't really have ACLs at all, you just hid stuff in interfaces. Once found, those interfaces were no protection at all.

ninkendo 3y ago

> never once heard a Swift developer complain that it's too hard to discover API interface Xcode presents the equivalent of a “header” when you follow a symbol to a framework you don’t have the source for… it’s a swift file full of definitions only and no implementations. The compiler emits this for you automatically as a .swiftinterface file > or keep things non-`public` I definitely am a swift developer that would complain about this. It’s way too easy to be cavalier about using the “public” keyword and making things part of the public API when they probably shouldn’t be. It’s like engineers have muscle memory from Java and just type “public class” without really questioning why first.

lapcat 3y ago
> The compiler emits this for you automatically as a .swiftinterface file It's so incredibly slow, though, which is frustrating. It would be ok if only this were as instantaneous as checking a header file. Ironically, almost everything about "Swift" is slower than Objective-C.

ultrarunner 3y ago

Everyone's brain is probably different, but when I first started writing swift I definitely missed header files. When I switch back from a c project I miss them again.

pasc1878 3y ago

IDEs have improved so integration of Swift and searching is easy. Objective-C now could do without headers but I used it 25 years ago and having headers made life easier.

itsthejb 3y ago

In my current and previous job, we talked about (and partially implemented) low level “contract” modules in order to avoid linking (and building) the entire module in order to share behaviour That problem was already solved with header files; trivial to split interface from implementation, they’re just two different files. But sometime around the 90s, probably Java and this was deemed inconvenient. Now we’re trying to reinvent that same pattern