4 ms·

Seems disingenuous to say "fructose" is the problem. "High fructose corn syrup as an additive in everything" is different than just "fructose", which is natural

Seems disingenuous to say "fructose" is the problem. "High fructose corn syrup as an additive in everything" is different than just "fructose", which is naturally found at reasonable levels in fruit - a very healthy and beneficial part of our diets.

ofrzeta 3y ago
Too much fruit isn't healthy, though. It's widespread myth that you can't eat too much fruit. Depends on the type of fruit, too.
- xboxnolifes 3y ago
  It's less so a myth, and more so that the Western diet tends to eat so little fruit that even suggesting that you can eat too much would lead to people eating even less than they currently do, worsening outcomes.
  - InSteady 3y ago
    It is a double edged sword though, because a LOT of people, including many health-conscious people, think of fruit and fruit juices as equivalent when they very much are not. You can drink down 4-7 apples/oranges/etc worth of nutrient-rich sugar juice in a matter of minutes, with only a fraction (or effectively zero) fiber. Quite terrible for the kinds of insulin and leptin resistance, ATP disrupting effects discussed in the paper. It's also worth remembering that many types of modern fruits are extremely sugary and tend to be relatively less fibrous and nutrient dense than historical, wild, and heirloom varieties. "Eat whole fruits regularly and in moderation" is much better advice overall. Simple, to the point, and cuts out problematic ambiguities.
  - scoofy 3y ago
    There is plenty of evidence that fruit does make us fat. The basis is that fruit used to be seasonal and was related to mammals surviving winter: > We have some local hatcheries, so at the time, we were getting significant runs back, and so they were willing to provide the salmon. Obviously, I don’t have enough students on board to go pick huckleberries in the amount that big grizzly bears or brown bears would want to eat. But we have an apple orchard right next door that is very — the apples are very, very similar in terms of being a lot of water, high carbohydrate and not too much else. We started doing studies where we would feed bears, if we’re talking about salmon, all the way from just maintaining their weight up to gaining prodigious amounts, and the same on apples. And then, so the next thing we did was feed both apples and salmon. And we let, in a lot of studies, we let the bears just determine what that mixture would be. And when they mixed them on a daily basis, then they gained more weight per unit of energy intake than either salmon alone or apples alone. And so there was an interaction effect, where by consuming both foods, it actually provided a better diet than either food alone. And that was what we were seeing in the wild bears. So the captive bears, given the choice, would do exactly what we were seeing in the wild bears. https://www.ktoo.org/2022/10/13/bears-eat-far-more-berries-than-you-might-think-study-says/ https://www.ktoo.org/2022/10/13/bears-eat-far-more-berries-t...
    - 876978095789789 3y ago
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6518666/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6518666/ > Conclusions: Current evidence suggests that whole, fresh fruit consumption is unlikely to contribute to excess energy intake and adiposity, but rather has little effect on these outcomes or constrains them modestly. Single-meal RCTs, RCTs lasting 3–24 weeks, and long-term observational studies are relatively consistent in supporting this conclusion. Whole, fresh fruit probably does not contribute to obesity and may have a place in the prevention and management of excess adiposity.
      - scoofy 3y ago
        In a world where there is sugar in essentially everything, I would agree that it would be difficult to find a correlation between the effects of fructose in fresh fruit added to a diet and without it. I shouldn't have said "does" but "can" would have been more appropriate.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
  It's way harder to eat a lot of whole fruits though. 1 gala apple is 80 calories, you need something like 25 apples to fulfill the calories of the day without getting fat. That's a lot of apples and the glucose + fructose + fiber combo triggers your brain in feeling satiated for a good chunk of time (2 hours roughly), with just 1 apple. Granted that this is all extremely specific to an individual, I can easily eat 2 cheeseburgers in a meal and just feel full, or 2 apples and feel full, 2000 vs 160 calories!
  - derekperkins 3y ago
    "show me your fat fruit friend" https://youtube.com/shorts/EL4LY1WPEes https://youtube.com/shorts/EL4LY1WPEes
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
      Lol that killed me, ahahah
Geee 3y ago
Fructose specifically is the problem. It has completely different metabolism compared to glucose. It's explained in the above video, starting from around 43:00. Also, one of its effects is that it increases appetite.
scoofy 3y ago
In nature, wherever you find fructose, you find extremely high fiber. The fruit we eat is only so sweet from centuries of genetic modification.

ofrzeta 3y ago

Too much fruit isn't healthy, though. It's widespread myth that you can't eat too much fruit. Depends on the type of fruit, too.

xboxnolifes 3y ago
It's less so a myth, and more so that the Western diet tends to eat so little fruit that even suggesting that you can eat too much would lead to people eating even less than they currently do, worsening outcomes.
- InSteady 3y ago
  It is a double edged sword though, because a LOT of people, including many health-conscious people, think of fruit and fruit juices as equivalent when they very much are not. You can drink down 4-7 apples/oranges/etc worth of nutrient-rich sugar juice in a matter of minutes, with only a fraction (or effectively zero) fiber. Quite terrible for the kinds of insulin and leptin resistance, ATP disrupting effects discussed in the paper. It's also worth remembering that many types of modern fruits are extremely sugary and tend to be relatively less fibrous and nutrient dense than historical, wild, and heirloom varieties. "Eat whole fruits regularly and in moderation" is much better advice overall. Simple, to the point, and cuts out problematic ambiguities.
- scoofy 3y ago
  There is plenty of evidence that fruit does make us fat. The basis is that fruit used to be seasonal and was related to mammals surviving winter: > We have some local hatcheries, so at the time, we were getting significant runs back, and so they were willing to provide the salmon. Obviously, I don’t have enough students on board to go pick huckleberries in the amount that big grizzly bears or brown bears would want to eat. But we have an apple orchard right next door that is very — the apples are very, very similar in terms of being a lot of water, high carbohydrate and not too much else. We started doing studies where we would feed bears, if we’re talking about salmon, all the way from just maintaining their weight up to gaining prodigious amounts, and the same on apples. And then, so the next thing we did was feed both apples and salmon. And we let, in a lot of studies, we let the bears just determine what that mixture would be. And when they mixed them on a daily basis, then they gained more weight per unit of energy intake than either salmon alone or apples alone. And so there was an interaction effect, where by consuming both foods, it actually provided a better diet than either food alone. And that was what we were seeing in the wild bears. So the captive bears, given the choice, would do exactly what we were seeing in the wild bears. https://www.ktoo.org/2022/10/13/bears-eat-far-more-berries-than-you-might-think-study-says/ https://www.ktoo.org/2022/10/13/bears-eat-far-more-berries-t...
  - 876978095789789 3y ago
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6518666/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6518666/ > Conclusions: Current evidence suggests that whole, fresh fruit consumption is unlikely to contribute to excess energy intake and adiposity, but rather has little effect on these outcomes or constrains them modestly. Single-meal RCTs, RCTs lasting 3–24 weeks, and long-term observational studies are relatively consistent in supporting this conclusion. Whole, fresh fruit probably does not contribute to obesity and may have a place in the prevention and management of excess adiposity.
    - scoofy 3y ago
      In a world where there is sugar in essentially everything, I would agree that it would be difficult to find a correlation between the effects of fructose in fresh fruit added to a diet and without it. I shouldn't have said "does" but "can" would have been more appropriate.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
It's way harder to eat a lot of whole fruits though. 1 gala apple is 80 calories, you need something like 25 apples to fulfill the calories of the day without getting fat. That's a lot of apples and the glucose + fructose + fiber combo triggers your brain in feeling satiated for a good chunk of time (2 hours roughly), with just 1 apple. Granted that this is all extremely specific to an individual, I can easily eat 2 cheeseburgers in a meal and just feel full, or 2 apples and feel full, 2000 vs 160 calories!
- derekperkins 3y ago
  "show me your fat fruit friend" https://youtube.com/shorts/EL4LY1WPEes https://youtube.com/shorts/EL4LY1WPEes
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
    Lol that killed me, ahahah

Geee 3y ago

Fructose specifically is the problem. It has completely different metabolism compared to glucose. It's explained in the above video, starting from around 43:00. Also, one of its effects is that it increases appetite.

scoofy 3y ago

In nature, wherever you find fructose, you find extremely high fiber. The fruit we eat is only so sweet from centuries of genetic modification.