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How not to hire a North Korean plant posing as a techie
- mike_hock 3y ago[flagged]
- kortilla 3y agoIt’s from South Korean authorities
- Citizen_Lame 3y agoHe is clearly a North Korean plant.
- garba_dlm 3y agostill racist, it's the worst kind of racism, brother Vs brother (or possibly more accurate cousins? dunno) for long term effects of this practice see the Gaza v. Israel fiasco
- wongarsu 3y ago> for long term effects of this practice see the Gaza v. Israel fiasco Isn't the core of the Gaza conflict rather that Isrealis and Muslims aren't related, but both want the same piece of land
- toss1 3y agoYes, that, plus a dozen Arab states actively financing their proxy military organizations (Hezbollah/Hamas/etc.) and foisting them on the Palestinians as their "government" to further those states goal of exterminating Israel.
- denton-scratch 3y ago> foisting them on the Palestinians as their "government" Hamas (the political wing) is the duly-elected political representative of all Palestinians. It's not surprising that Mohammed Abbas cancelled elections in 2021. The military wing of Hamas is in the ascendant, likely as a direct result of the extreme suppression of Hamas as a political organisation.
- toss1 3y agoNote: "duly-elected" does NOT equal fairly-elected, without undue influence, financing, eliminating viable opponents, etc. I happen to think that the POTUS is correct to point out that Hamas' policy of intending to kill all Jews, and intentionally targeting civilians including babies and elderly, is NOT shared by all Palestinians. If you want to argue that it is, and that Hamas actually represents all Palestinians, then all Palestinians are also legitimate combatants and targets in the conflict. You cannot have it both ways. Pick your poison. Carefully. If you look a bit more carefully at the facts, you will likely find that the Arab states influence is the basis of the entire problem. Simply look at their response this week. Not a single one will help the Palestinians, and it took a US Presidential visit to even convince Egypt to allow humanitarian help through their common border. The Arab states DGAF about their Palestinian brothers, other than how they can be used as pawns.
- denton-scratch 3y ago> Hamas' policy of intending to kill all Jews There is no such policy. Hamas's founding charter calls for an Islamic state in the whole Palestinian territory, so in that sense it calls for the elimination of Israel. > then all Palestinians are also legitimate combatants and targets in the conflict Hmmm. "All Palestinians" are not reservists in the Al Qassam brigades; but nearly all Israelis are either serving in the IDF, or they are reservists. And it certainly looks as if all Palestinians are treated as combatants by the occupying power. Also, since Hamas won the 2006 election, they have not adopted their founding charter into their political programme; it's leader has stated that the founding charter is a historical artifact that cannot be changed for "internal reasons". > The Arab states DGAF about their Palestinian brothers The states don't; they care only about money. But their people do, and those states are bracing for trouble on the streets. And note that Jordan, in particular, has issued passports to a large part of the West Bank population. Jordan may be an Arab state, but it's not like the oil states on the arab peninsula.
- mminer237 3y agoJews and Arabs both claim they are descended from Abraham's sons Isaac and Ishmael, respectively. In a sense, it can be seen as a very long-standing dispute between distant cousins over who should inherit their great(x160)-grandfather's land.
- OfSanguineFire 3y agoIslam teaches that relationship between Jews and Arabs due to Mohammed building on preexisting monotheistic traditions in the region, but Judaism does not. The Arab people and their ancestry is not part of Judaism’s own lore.
- mcpackieh 3y agoVisually and physically, Palestinians and Israelis are virtually impossible to distinguish. Some of them obviously can be distinguished by their fashion choices and circumstance, but physically they're basically identical. There are instances of people posting pictures of injured or scared Palestinian children mistaking them for Israeli children, their confusion evident from their outraged remarks accompanying the picture, then deleting the post shortly later when somebody points out their mistake. https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/jamie-lee-curtis-swiftly-deletes-israel-post-after-fans-call-her-out/news-story/33ee573fb320cf1681b1e0db606a8436 https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/jamie-l... Somebody could probably run this trick deliberately to make a point; go around to American evangelical churches using pictures of Palestinians presented as Israelis to tear-jerk the (overwhelmingly zionist) evangelical Christians, then reveal the truth to them. Maybe the message would get through to a few.
- toss1 3y agoNo, it is an entirely fact-based move to reduce the risk of empowering totalitarian regimes with advanced information technology and advanced weapons technology, including nuclear weapons. Note that the warning comes from South Korea, so are they pushing a racial bias against themselves? Yes it really sucks to have to endure racial biases, which are a fundamentally stupid way of dividing the world. But that does not mean that everything is an example of such bias.
- garba_dlm 3y agoyes, that's what they're doing. because they hate North Koreans, because it's part of their government. how this works is described in "1984" (by Orwell), which is a fictional work.... ahahahhaah
- eatonphil 3y agoThe first half of the article was pretty general advice that didn't seem to me to have anything more specific with how to deal with North Koreans than how you'd deal with a fraudulent IT freelancer in general. The second half though was explicitly calling out a country/group, not North Korea, but professors who have Chinese citizenship.
- mrweasel 3y agoThe Danish government might want to read this, preferably before having any more North Koreans working on ships for the navy.
- tokai 3y agoNah that was a different grift. One where a contractor hires a NK subcontractor that employs slave labor.
- fossislife 3y ago> Repeated requests for prepayment; anger or aggression when the request is denied. Why would they ask for prepayment?
- some_random 3y agoBecause the longer they're working at a company the higher chance of being found out and terminated, the higher the chance of their accounts being frozen, and the lower the chance they actually are able to get money to their handlers.
- BossingAround 3y ago> Evading in-person meetings or requests for drug tests Why would they evade drug tests and meeting in person? Do the "techies" claim they are not Korean at all? Surely, a North Korean would pass as a South Korean to (at least) any non-Korean colleague?
- some_random 3y agoBecause they're slaves kept in dorms in various South East Asian countries that can't leave, their handler wouldn't allow to go to an in person meeting or take a drug test. They're also usually lying about the city and country they're working from.
- clubm8 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- eberfreitas 3y agoSource?
- some_random 3y agoHere's a fantastic NYT article on NK defection that includes some details of the conditions https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/09/world/asia/north-korea-china-defectors.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/09/world/asia/north-korea-ch... This article mentions NK workers posing as Americans by paying for VPNs into people's home wifi https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/fbi-thousands-remote-workers-wages-north-korea-fund-104136257 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/fbi-thousands-remote-wor...
- BossingAround 3y agoAh that makes sense, didn't realize that they aren't free to move.
- flerchin 3y agoA lot of the advice seems to boil down to "don't hire remote freelancers."
- some_random 3y agoI don't know where you're seeing that, what advice here would make it hard or impossible to hire real remote freelancers other than maybe the in person meetings?
- flerchin 3y agoNo RDP, no VPNs, verified working locations. Typically freelancers work from wherever they want, on any random starbucks wifi.
- some_random 3y agoRDP should be architected around, VPNs are fine just not _commercial VPNs_, and verified working locations here isn't about making sure you're always working from 123 Foobar street but about making sure you're in the country you say you are.
- gumby 3y agoI believe most work from home. Certainly there are many “work from a cafe” or “work as a footloose traveler” people, but I think they are a small minority in practice.
- figassis 3y agoRegarding RDP, the issue might be the same as no SSH into machines where you can break out of. Best practice for devs is to work locally and submit PRs? For non tech workers, I don't see the need to RDP anywhere since applications today are mostly cloud based, and others are license based, you'd need a license for the employee to use, say, autodesk tools, so they can install locally. No RDP is good advice either way. For VPNs, I think they mean non company provided VPNs. So if they're needed, the company should provide them. I can se a scenario where your ISP throttling your traffic or you want to secure traffic and your employer has no VPN. Idk how I'd solve this one. Verified working locations: I work usually from home or my office, but when I travel, it's usually not a secret where I am, I don't actively try to hide it, it's visible during zoom calls, etc. It's about the level of trust you build with your employer. I have stopped by HQ once or twice while on vacation but that is not required. Overall don't have shady patterns? But...I am certain companies are not reasonable and some will conflate RDP with any remote thing. Others have no idea how to setup vpn infra, and others simply can't fathom that a remote employee can/should travel while working. So they will have policies that will make remote workers ineligible for hiring.
- FooBarBizBazz 3y ago"Don't let the hoodie fool you, that's Pinus densiflora."
- clubm8 3y agoare black hoodies juche?
- stuff4ben 3y agoWish someone would honeypot them all then reverse infect their computers.
- psd1 3y agoI've always assumed that we (the west) do. Stuxnet, e.g.?
- dharmab 3y agoOriginal source: https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2023/PSA231018 https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2023/PSA231018
- Tabular-Iceberg 3y agoWouldn’t throwing tantrums and threatening to violate NDAs over petty cash just undermine their entire spying operation?
- RIMR 3y agoIt sounds to me like the US released a report about NK espionage operations, and then people "thought" (as the article phrases it) that NK operatives were everywhere, and now we have this article that just seems to tie the most obnoxious freelancer behavior to NK espionage, without any actual evidence.
- vkou 3y agoWe're just repeating an old page from an old playbook. > Back in 1937 Comrade Stalin pointed out that as long as the Soviet Union existed amid capitalist encirclement we would have wreckers, spies, saboteurs and murderers sent to our home front by foreign states. [1] Just change the names and the years and the professions around, and we'll be good to go. The actual existence, non-existence, or prevalence of spies, saboteurs and wreckers is second fiddle to the perception thereof. :) [1] https://soviethistory.msu.edu/1947-2/xenophobia/xenophobia-texts/spies-saboteurs-embezzlers-and-swindlers/ https://soviethistory.msu.edu/1947-2/xenophobia/xenophobia-t...
- mcmoor 3y agoI find the best part about reading McCarthyism history is that THERE ARE communist traitors in USA, sometimes in very high places https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Dexter_White#Venona_project https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Dexter_White#Venona_pr... . I guess if your spy network is sophisticated enough to make your enemy have to blunder either for false negative (your spy doesn't get caught) or false positive (your enemy self sabotage, killing their own kins), you win.
- ClumsyPilot 3y agoYeah, this reads like blatant xenophobia.
- lolc 3y ago> Threats to release proprietary source codes if additional payments are not made; This is "a sign"? In what company is that not grounds for immediate revocation of all access, termination?
- kube-system 3y agoIt is both.
- lolc 3y agoTo me it was weird in a list of things "to look out for". When somebody makes those threats, the jig is up. But of course, retrospectively, it may help to classify. So yea, I get now why it's on the list.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- throw747488 3y agoHere is my opinion as someone who worked with alongside North Koreans (textile factory) and visited NK. I am from East Europe and have 10 years in IT. - NK secret service (or whatever you call it) is more sophisticated than this. They will act as proper company from Turkey, India, China or even EU countries... - if you actually manage to get some North Korean who escaped to West, they are 10x more dedicated than anyone else. China, or South Korea (usual target countries) do not offer many opportunities, they need money for relatives. - NK secret services do not attack west infrastructure, or steal info from small fish. They are too small to do that! Most money is from drugs and guns. - if you hire US only, you eliminate 99.99% of issues. US borders are not ideal, but they do repeal unwanted Asians. Edit: * stitching, working with cloth, it was textile factory in East Europe
- Pigalowda 3y agoThis is a guide for online platforms, such as upwork
- mariojv 3y agoOut of curiosity, how would a North Korean who escaped to the West even get money to relatives still there?
- eunos 3y agoMaybe some network in CN, HK, Macau or even TW!
- alephnerd 3y agoVietnam is a major location. You'll find a number of NK operated companies and restaurants in Saigon and Hanoi to help bring in foreign currency. Also, Vietnam has one of the largest Korean diasporas outside of Korea, as South Korean companies moved all their operations in China to Vietnam in 2013-17 after the THAAD fiasco. Just about every single product and conglomerate in Vietnam is Korean (specifically Lotte Holdings). Walk down the street and you'd find 3 Lotte Marts. Then go grab lunch at the Lotteria next door. Then call a Grab and ride in a Hyundai back to your apartment in D2 built by Lotte while the driver is playing KPop produced by Lotte Cultureworks, and then watch some KDramas or Vietnamese shows at home produced by Lotte Cultureworks and maybe chill out while drinking some Chum-Churum Soju. Then, next morning, drink some Chillsung Cider to fight the hangover and go to your company, who will end up exporting products back to Korea via Lotte Global Logistics with financing from Lotte Capital. When you end up getting vacation, you'll end up flying to Seoul and maybe take your family to Lotte Hotel World.
- axus 3y agoI'm amazed that the "alt-detection" problem from multiplayer games has become a business problem. I guess the US gov has been doing this for decades for security clearances, is there a commercial equivalent that works internationally? And there's still the "man-in-the-middle" problem.
- webdoodle 3y agoThe U.S. Office of Personnel Management data breach in 2015 exposed the personnel files of anyone who had applied for a job with the U.S. federal government. It was blamed on China, and it may have been, but that isn't to say they didn't sell or trade the data to N.K. That data would be extremely useful in building fake profiles that pass inspection, as bundled with LinkedIn data it would show what profile ingredients get people hired.
- Run_DOS_Run 3y ago>Evading in-person meetings or requests for drug tests. I am surprised about the request for drug tests. Is this common in the US? Except for high-security jobs, which are never possible remotely anyway, I have never heard of a client or employer asking for a drug test. If I got a request for a drug test, I would quit immediately. Even if I am sure it is negative, my private life is my business. Any attempt to control my private life I see as a personal attack.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoIntel had me do a drug test just for an internship that I was almost going to take in 1996 or 97. I'm not sure if they still do that, I haven't had a drug test since getting my Chinese work visa (which required a drug and Aids test).
- Der_Einzige 3y agoNo drug tests at Intel for SWE blue badges circa 2015-2017.
- creer 3y agoIntel used to come up regularly in discussions as requiring drug tests of all engineer new hires - and people either not bothering to apply based on that or trying to never show up for the test. Good to hear hints that this changed.
- Der_Einzige 3y agofwiw: That was in Oregon where pot was legal. I wouldn't be surprised if it's somewhat more strict in say, Arizona. Also, I knew that fab folks, both blue and green badge (people wearing bunny suits) were drug tested.
- nerpderp82 3y agoI was a contractor for Motorola and had to take a drug test, I have never consumed so much water in my life.
- ClumsyPilot 3y agoThis reads like blatant fear mongering > infiltrate organizations they work for to steal secrets Do you worry about this as a random company? You are gonna steal source code for 4 out of 12 micro services required to run some random online shopping website, or a video game? what is North Korean gov. Going to do with it? And if you give random people access to customer data, then it’s already being sold on the dark web. > suspicious behavior such as working odd hours and inconsistencies in name spellings every autistic or dyslexic or socially disfynctional techy is a spy now?
- RecycledEle 3y agoQ: What will they do with it? A: Insert code for backdoors, then leverage those backdoors to hack defense systems and systems that can track where defense personnel and equipment are. Traffic cameras and delivery services come to mind.
- fennecfoxy 3y agoFyi we don't live in a utopian all for one and one for all world, as unfortunate as that is.
- naruhodo 3y ago> logging in from multiple IP addresses, [x] Phone, laptop. > working odd hours, [x] Delayed sleep phase insomnia. > Repeated requests for prepayment followed by “anger or aggression when the request is denied”; [x] Previously ripped off by shitty employers. > Evading in-person meetings or requests for drug tests; [x] Social anxiety, medical cannabis user who is aware that even though legal (in AU) it is stigmatised. > Having multiple online profiles for the same identity with different pictures, or online profiles with no picture. [x] Average privacy enthusiast. I await further instructions from Glorious Leader.
- kube-system 3y agoThis is why human judgement is significantly more nuanced than a pile of if statements.
- red-iron-pine 3y agothe if statements just generate a flag. if you're flagged, then here is your plane ticket, come to HQ and let's prove your a real human. showing up, looking more or less like your ID and zoom call, and being able to speak generally about what you're working on is enough. like even if the job is 100% remote, fly em to the office at least once or twice.
- kube-system 3y agoMy point is that the source press release was never a piece of software. It was always guidelines for humans to interpret.