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Google itself is a threat, about as user hostile of an organization as there has ever been.

kaba0 3y ago
That was not the question asked. Google is good at data security, and at the same time they are probably the biggest privacy violators, and both of this can be true.
- fsckboy 3y ago
  if you talk about security, you're talking about threats. To put Google into both categories, sorry, GP is right.
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago
    Some users may consider targeting advertising to be a threat, others less so. My take is, if targeted advertising is the biggest thing you're worried about in terms of cybersecurity, you are probably doing reasonably well at staying secure.
0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago
This seems like hyperbole. I'm not particularly worried about Google stealing my credit card number and making fraudulent purchases. But I am worried about criminal organizations doing this. There's so much FUD on HN about big tech companies, but I'm skeptical that their wickedness actually lives up to the hype. I suspect it is more of a clickbait miasma (journalists hate Google because they took revenue from the media industry) than anything based in fact. Google provides free and useful products (Google Search, Gmail, Android) to people across the world. Billions of people use this stuff voluntarily -- why? If Google is "about as user hostile of an organization as there has ever been", it should be easy for you to come up with at least 3 examples off the top of your head (no searching for "14 ways Google is evil" listicles) of them being at least as nasty (on a per capita basis relative to the population of people they have relationships with) as the literal mafia. It should be no trouble at all. So, could you please do that for me?
- stcroixx 3y ago
  1 - They built a product to follow everyone around online and in real life, breaking multiple consumer protection laws in the process, say 40 of our 50 states https://www.npr.org/2022/11/14/1136521305/google-settlement-location-tracking-data-privacy https://www.npr.org/2022/11/14/1136521305/google-settlement-... 2 - They've created an illegal advertising monopoly https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-google-monopolizing-digital-advertising-technologies https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-googl... 3 - Violate the law to illegally collect data on children, say multiple states https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2019/09/google-youtube-will-pay-record-170-million-alleged-violations-childrens-privacy-law https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2019/09/..., https://iapp.org/news/a/google-new-mexico-ag-settle-coppa-allegations/ https://iapp.org/news/a/google-new-mexico-ag-settle-coppa-al... Over a billion people smoke cigarettes, doesn't make it a good idea. Most of the worlds population can't afford an iPhone, so are left using Android. Is it unreasonable to think they're probably doing something else illegal that hurts us right now? Or that they'll use their ill gotten treasure hoard to buy the resolution of their choice when they're caught again?
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago
    I still think your statement was hyperbole, but thanks for giving me the list I asked for.
lioeters 3y ago
This is the kind of answer I like to see on this forum, and I hope more people become as aware and outspoken.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago
  It's the kind of answer that makes me wish people actually followed the HN guidelines. I understand people are very passionate, but I prefer to make decisions based on facts. My experience is that the people who are super passionate often show themselves to be uninformed when you drill down and start asking them hard questions about their strong claims.

That was not the question asked. Google is good at data security, and at the same time they are probably the biggest privacy violators, and both of this can be true.

fsckboy 3y ago
if you talk about security, you're talking about threats. To put Google into both categories, sorry, GP is right.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago
  Some users may consider targeting advertising to be a threat, others less so. My take is, if targeted advertising is the biggest thing you're worried about in terms of cybersecurity, you are probably doing reasonably well at staying secure.

0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago

This seems like hyperbole. I'm not particularly worried about Google stealing my credit card number and making fraudulent purchases. But I am worried about criminal organizations doing this. There's so much FUD on HN about big tech companies, but I'm skeptical that their wickedness actually lives up to the hype. I suspect it is more of a clickbait miasma (journalists hate Google because they took revenue from the media industry) than anything based in fact. Google provides free and useful products (Google Search, Gmail, Android) to people across the world. Billions of people use this stuff voluntarily -- why? If Google is "about as user hostile of an organization as there has ever been", it should be easy for you to come up with at least 3 examples off the top of your head (no searching for "14 ways Google is evil" listicles) of them being at least as nasty (on a per capita basis relative to the population of people they have relationships with) as the literal mafia. It should be no trouble at all. So, could you please do that for me?

stcroixx 3y ago
1 - They built a product to follow everyone around online and in real life, breaking multiple consumer protection laws in the process, say 40 of our 50 states https://www.npr.org/2022/11/14/1136521305/google-settlement-location-tracking-data-privacy https://www.npr.org/2022/11/14/1136521305/google-settlement-... 2 - They've created an illegal advertising monopoly https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-google-monopolizing-digital-advertising-technologies https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-googl... 3 - Violate the law to illegally collect data on children, say multiple states https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2019/09/google-youtube-will-pay-record-170-million-alleged-violations-childrens-privacy-law https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2019/09/..., https://iapp.org/news/a/google-new-mexico-ag-settle-coppa-allegations/ https://iapp.org/news/a/google-new-mexico-ag-settle-coppa-al... Over a billion people smoke cigarettes, doesn't make it a good idea. Most of the worlds population can't afford an iPhone, so are left using Android. Is it unreasonable to think they're probably doing something else illegal that hurts us right now? Or that they'll use their ill gotten treasure hoard to buy the resolution of their choice when they're caught again?
- 0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago
  I still think your statement was hyperbole, but thanks for giving me the list I asked for.

lioeters 3y ago

This is the kind of answer I like to see on this forum, and I hope more people become as aware and outspoken.

0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago
It's the kind of answer that makes me wish people actually followed the HN guidelines. I understand people are very passionate, but I prefer to make decisions based on facts. My experience is that the people who are super passionate often show themselves to be uninformed when you drill down and start asking them hard questions about their strong claims.