23 ms·

You need the autonomy to break the law while on the clock and endanger yourself and those around you without it being reported? Why?

Analemma_ 3y ago
Because Amazon also fires drivers if they don't manage an insane pace of deliveries-per-hour. Speeding is basically the only way you can meet the target they set. So it's pretty shitty of Amazon to put drivers in this Catch-22.
- mcfedr 3y ago
  Maybe that would actually help you to prove if you are being asked to do something unreasonable
- denimnerd42 3y ago
  sounds more fair to drivers if everyone is policed equally. otherwise like you say, they are forced to speed. if you want to drive safely you can't and also keep your job. whereas now the metrics will show what is reasonable.
- Fernicia 3y ago
  Is your behavioural model of Amazon that they are trying to maximise firings?
  - whaleofatw2022 3y ago
    Maximizing profit. It's a large chunk of logistics. When EDL (electronic data logging) became mandatory a crapton of drivers left the industry because they could no longer fudge records. The labor churn is an unintended, and ignored side effect.
  - reverius42 3y ago
    I think they're definitely trying to maximize _cause_ for firings, such that if and when they do firings, they can't (as easily) be accused of firing for wrongful cause.
- Night_Thastus 3y ago
  In real world practical tests, speeding does not reduce the overall travel times proportionally with the speed. This is ESPECIALLY true for city driving and for a job with a ton of stops like a delivery driver. Going 45 in a 40 is a 12.5% increase on paper but maybe 3% more deliveries in a day at best. I'd be shocked if that much honestly. Speeding does not help anyone.
  - fooker 3y ago
    > 3% more deliveries With stack ranking, this can easily get you from the bottom half to the top half pf performers.
themaninthedark 3y ago
What is the resolution of the speed detection? When was the map last updated? Or to put this another way: We have a system for perfectly knowing what the drivers speed is. We also perfectly know what the legal street speed is. Instead of limiting the drivers maximum speed to the legal street speed, we instead just tell their boss? Looks to me like Amazon wants their drivers to violate the speed limit but then also want to have a record of when they do so they can fire them for cause.
- LeifCarrotson 3y ago
  Both resolution and updates are imperfect, therefore, the reporting system makes more sense. The appeal process for an on-vehicle limit is instant, real-time interaction with the hardware, while for the latter you can talk to a human. If you were cited for going 68 in a 25 you can point out that you were on the highway 10 seconds before and 10 seconds after the incident, and had no way to get to the access road under the highway. If your vehicle decided you were speeding and slammed on the brakes in the middle of the interstate, you'd need a much more reliable system. If your relationship with your employer is dehumanized to the point where these reports, reviews, and penalties are interactions with an uncaring piece of software, that's a different problem.
  - themaninthedark 3y ago
    Right. That is my point, so now you are expecting the Amazon delivery manager to take time to go through all the reports with each employee. The employee to remember what was going on at the time and the system to be fair. Or: The Amazon manager is either going to fire the employee after a number of reports or keep the reports in their back pocket to use when they need an excuse to fire the employee.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    Do speed limiters that engage the brakes actually exist, or is this a nonsense scenario?
- michaelt 3y ago
  > Instead of limiting the drivers maximum speed to the legal street speed, we instead just tell their boss? I don't know about the Rivian, but many driver monitoring systems are aftermarket retrofits, not vehicle manufacturer parts. The driver monitoring system is just a fancy dashcam with cloud uploading features, and a bunch of people in a low-income country manually labelling video clips.
qup 3y ago
If you drive the 55mph speed limit on "the bypass" in pretty much any metro area in the united states, you are risking your own life to be going so slow relative to traffic. I'm generally the slowest driver on my commute, judging from the fact that I rarely pass anyone; however, I go faster than the speed limit, at some point during the trip, nearly every time I get in the car. I do not endanger those around me, in my opinion.
- LeifCarrotson 3y ago
  I think this is extremely regional - it's not true in the Grand Rapids, MI metro area (here we have to fight to get people to zipper merge at the lane closure instead of backing up 5 miles down the expressway in one lane because they heard it was closed...) But having driven in Chicago and San Francisco, it's quite different in some places. Probably needs local differences in policy and application.
  - paconbork 3y ago
    On the Dan Ryan, driving the speed limit would be very unsafe considering most people are going at least 15 over!

Analemma_ 3y ago

Because Amazon also fires drivers if they don't manage an insane pace of deliveries-per-hour. Speeding is basically the only way you can meet the target they set. So it's pretty shitty of Amazon to put drivers in this Catch-22.

mcfedr 3y ago
Maybe that would actually help you to prove if you are being asked to do something unreasonable
denimnerd42 3y ago
sounds more fair to drivers if everyone is policed equally. otherwise like you say, they are forced to speed. if you want to drive safely you can't and also keep your job. whereas now the metrics will show what is reasonable.
Fernicia 3y ago
Is your behavioural model of Amazon that they are trying to maximise firings?
- whaleofatw2022 3y ago
  Maximizing profit. It's a large chunk of logistics. When EDL (electronic data logging) became mandatory a crapton of drivers left the industry because they could no longer fudge records. The labor churn is an unintended, and ignored side effect.
- reverius42 3y ago
  I think they're definitely trying to maximize _cause_ for firings, such that if and when they do firings, they can't (as easily) be accused of firing for wrongful cause.
Night_Thastus 3y ago
In real world practical tests, speeding does not reduce the overall travel times proportionally with the speed. This is ESPECIALLY true for city driving and for a job with a ton of stops like a delivery driver. Going 45 in a 40 is a 12.5% increase on paper but maybe 3% more deliveries in a day at best. I'd be shocked if that much honestly. Speeding does not help anyone.
- fooker 3y ago
  > 3% more deliveries With stack ranking, this can easily get you from the bottom half to the top half pf performers.

themaninthedark 3y ago

What is the resolution of the speed detection? When was the map last updated? Or to put this another way: We have a system for perfectly knowing what the drivers speed is. We also perfectly know what the legal street speed is. Instead of limiting the drivers maximum speed to the legal street speed, we instead just tell their boss? Looks to me like Amazon wants their drivers to violate the speed limit but then also want to have a record of when they do so they can fire them for cause.

LeifCarrotson 3y ago
Both resolution and updates are imperfect, therefore, the reporting system makes more sense. The appeal process for an on-vehicle limit is instant, real-time interaction with the hardware, while for the latter you can talk to a human. If you were cited for going 68 in a 25 you can point out that you were on the highway 10 seconds before and 10 seconds after the incident, and had no way to get to the access road under the highway. If your vehicle decided you were speeding and slammed on the brakes in the middle of the interstate, you'd need a much more reliable system. If your relationship with your employer is dehumanized to the point where these reports, reviews, and penalties are interactions with an uncaring piece of software, that's a different problem.
- themaninthedark 3y ago
  Right. That is my point, so now you are expecting the Amazon delivery manager to take time to go through all the reports with each employee. The employee to remember what was going on at the time and the system to be fair. Or: The Amazon manager is either going to fire the employee after a number of reports or keep the reports in their back pocket to use when they need an excuse to fire the employee.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  Do speed limiters that engage the brakes actually exist, or is this a nonsense scenario?
michaelt 3y ago
> Instead of limiting the drivers maximum speed to the legal street speed, we instead just tell their boss? I don't know about the Rivian, but many driver monitoring systems are aftermarket retrofits, not vehicle manufacturer parts. The driver monitoring system is just a fancy dashcam with cloud uploading features, and a bunch of people in a low-income country manually labelling video clips.

qup 3y ago

If you drive the 55mph speed limit on "the bypass" in pretty much any metro area in the united states, you are risking your own life to be going so slow relative to traffic. I'm generally the slowest driver on my commute, judging from the fact that I rarely pass anyone; however, I go faster than the speed limit, at some point during the trip, nearly every time I get in the car. I do not endanger those around me, in my opinion.

LeifCarrotson 3y ago
I think this is extremely regional - it's not true in the Grand Rapids, MI metro area (here we have to fight to get people to zipper merge at the lane closure instead of backing up 5 miles down the expressway in one lane because they heard it was closed...) But having driven in Chicago and San Francisco, it's quite different in some places. Probably needs local differences in policy and application.
- paconbork 3y ago
  On the Dan Ryan, driving the speed limit would be very unsafe considering most people are going at least 15 over!