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They're called 14900, 14700, etc. But truly, they're just 13th Gen processors with slightly different names. The 14700 actually got some new E cores, which act
by kuschku 3y ago
They're called 14900, 14700, etc. But truly, they're just 13th Gen processors with slightly different names.
The 14700 actually got some new E cores, which actually makes a difference (12 vs the old 8, making a total of 28 instead of 24 cores).
But the 14600 and 14900 are exactly identical to their predecessors, at a higher price.
The only major difference so far is that these chips by default don't have the typical power limit set, so they can actually achieve about +2-3% more performance in gaming at +100% more power draw.
GN famously called the 11700K a "waste of perfectly fine sand", but that description fits the 14600 and 14900 even better.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jchw 3y agoTo be fair, the 11xxx series was pretty brazen. If I remember correctly, they literally regressed in many benchmarks. At least this is just functionally identical. Clearly, the correct move is to buy 13th gen parts at their current street prices; or maybe Ryzen depending on what your priorities are. The only good news is that it's hard to go too wrong in this era; I've had great success with CPU upgrades and new boxen in the past few years on both sides of the aisle.
- happycube 3y agoAt least the 11th gen was a different core instead of the Nth skylake rehash, and the only consumer line to have AVX-512.
- densh 3y agoLatest Ryzen generation has AVX-512 support with some footnotes.
- LoganDark 3y agodo those footnotes include your software crashing from an unknown opcode when it gets automatically moved to the e-cores while executing vector instructions ? -vicuna
- saltcured 3y agoSo far, AMD doesn't do the p-core/e-core thing. All cores will have the same ISA. They have talked about a "compact" core which seems to be a tweaked process that shrinks the core and decreases peak clocks a bit, meant to cram more cores into one chip. If CPU designs were like software, you might think of this a bit like someone choosing compiler flags to optimize for size instead of absolute speed, but still compiling the same sources. I'm not sure what footnotes the earlier poster meant. One might be that the AMD model numbering is a bit obscure. You need to look closely that you are getting a Zen 4 core in your Ryzen, with the same model line mixing different CPU and GPU architectures in different models. I don't know if there are programmer-visible differences in what AVX-512 means to AMD vs Intel...
- LoganDark 3y ago> So far, AMD doesn't do the p-core/e-core thing oh... i missed the fact that they said ryzen. oops. sorry -vicuna
- zekica 3y agoNo, AMD doesn't have E-Cores right now, but even when they do it won't ever crash: they have Zen4 as their P-Core and Zen4c as their E-Core. Both support exactly the same extensions.
- LoganDark 3y ago> AMD doesn't have E-Cores right now this is currently their best selling point, this better not ever change -vicuna
- SleepyMyroslav 3y agoIssues that only go away with disabled power efficient cores beg to differ. People assume that if its 3rd in a row generation of hardware released then software support issues were ironed out before.
- jchw 3y agoI don't know what software is problematic since it has yet to bite me, but hell, in that case, you can at least go Ryzen. While it's a bummer that there are basically only two high-end CPU vendors for the desktop, at least we're still spoiled for choice among their lineups, with plenty of different motherboard and CPU options. My main desktop box is Ryzen and it works great.
- duffyjp 3y agoI'm looking to snag the Microcenter Ryzen 7700X bundle the next time I'm in Chicago. Intel dominates stuff like Cinebench but that's not what I use my computer for. The Ryzens are very competitive in gaming at a fraction of the power draw and any of them are leagues ahead of my current i9-9900K in both single and multithreaded performance so I'd get a great uplift without heating up my office. I find it amusing that my absolute best intel desktop chip you could buy in 2019 would now be considered a low power chip with it's 95W TDP.
- jchw 3y agoMicroCenter also has a deal on and off (mainly keeps switching motherboards) for an Intel 12900k bundle with motherboard and 32 GB of DDR5 RAM for $400. It may not be the absolute best for raw gaming, but damn, that is a pretty good deal. I don't know how good of a value the 7700X bundle is, but my problem is I always want more cores because I am usually compiling code. I loved the 5950X, a very fast and power efficient CPU, so my likely upgrade path is probably the 7950X or TR or whatever CPU takes the "productivity" crown next. And hopefully, by the time I'm in the market again, MicroCenter will have another unreasonably good deal available.
- smolder 3y agoPersonally I'd much rather use a 7700x to not have to deal with asymmetrical cores. They perform close enough otherwise, I think with the 12900k having a minor edge in some tasks, including acting as a space heater. Also, 7700x buyers can expect CPU upgrades for a generation or two on the same motherboard. Intel's 14000 series (13000 part 2) is the end of the line CPU upgrade for the 12000 buyers.
- duffyjp 3y agoYeah, I learned that lesson the hard way buying a 9th gen Intel chip and having literally zero upgrade path on the same board. My plan is to get the 7700X bundle, which for $400 with board and 32GB DDR5 is a steal, then when AM5 is replaced get a new CPU from the final generation.
- aunty_helen 3y agoGN is great and cuts through a lot of the tech bs. I don’t watch much tech news or worry about what gen or nm process node we’re on anymore but from time to time I get GN in my YouTube recommendations and it’s always a good watch.
- sceadu 3y agoYou should watch the intro to the GN review video for this processor if you haven't already, I think you'd enjoy it
- culopatin 3y agoWho or what is “GN”? Is that the full name or an acronym?
- MikusR 3y agoA youtube channel that turns one tweet of content into 30min video.
- Lord-Jobo 3y agoI like and watch GN but this is true, they really do overcook some videos
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dijit 3y agoGamers Nexus, a youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/@GamersNexus https://www.youtube.com/@GamersNexus & https://gamersnexus.net https://gamersnexus.net
- venatiodecorus 3y agoGamers Nexus https://www.youtube.com/@GamersNexus https://www.youtube.com/@GamersNexus
- yread 3y agoAMD did the same stuff every major generation. This should be illegal
- type0 3y agoMobile AMD CPUs are even more confusing, deceptively so not aligning to generational improvements
- jchw 3y agoAMD has its fair share of blunders, they are surely hasty and have struggled to put out good products until relatively recently. But, I actually don't think they have, any time recently, released a literally identical CPU lineup as if it is a new generation of CPUs. The 14th gen Intel is interesting because it's actually really the same processor. Not just stagnation, but literally not a new lineup of CPUs. Intel did do this a few times before, but at least we know why (rest in peace, 14nm++++++.)
- yread 3y agoIt's not a whole lineup but a bunch of processor not easily identified from the type name are of the previous generation. For the current mobile 7000 series there is a mix of zen4 and zen3+ that confuses consumers and I think is worse than just releasing the same CPUs with a different number. For example https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-7-7736U-Processor-Benchmarks-and-Specs.684252.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-7-7736U-Processor-Be...
- icegreentea2 3y agoAMD has never done that for an entire lineup, but AMD has released plenty of rebadges sprinkled through their mobile lineup - arguably even worse for the unsuspecting buyers. This is why as annoying as their new mobile naming strategy is (like 7840 with the 4 standing for generation) is actually an improvement. For example, AMD mobile 5XXX series contained a mix of Zen 2 and Zen 3 parts. For example, the 5500U is a Zen 2 part (but the 5500H is Zen 3). The 5700U is Zen 2 (but the 5600U and 5800U is Zen 3). This isn't to defend Intel - this launch is pretty bleh.
- chx 3y agoGN's power chart https://youtu.be/8KKE-7BzB_M&t=462 https://youtu.be/8KKE-7BzB_M&t=462 shows how ridiculous the power draws are for both 13th and 14th gen. But as https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/10bna5r/13900k_power_scaling_analysis/ https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/10bna5r/13900k_po... notes > The difference between 205W and 253W is only about 3.5% performance. The difference from 150W to 205W is about 10%.
- mobilio 3y ago280W is too much! This even put them on Workstation HEDT class.
- brucethemoose2 3y agoThey are essentially workstation CPUs with that many threads.
- fwmcbumcrumble 3y agoAnd not enough pcie lanes. I want the opposite of what Intel is offering for my home server. Give me lots of pcie lanes, but not insane power consumption.
- kuschku 3y agoThe new Threadripper lineup? Threadripper Pro has a 12c and a 16c variant that should be around the 1000-1500$ area with 144 PCIe lanes.
- kuschku 3y agoIn derbauer's test, he got a performance difference of 2.5% between 200W and 400W (the review sample he got didn't set any power limits whatsoever by default) on Cinebench.
- sva_ 3y ago> GN The intro in the recent video about the 14700 was quite amusing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KKE-7BzB_M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KKE-7BzB_M
- bongobingo1 3y agoThanks Steve.
- ldoughty 3y agoAs an _addendum_ for those who are not as up to date on news: The 14th generation is a split-architecture for Desktop & Mobile. The 14th Gen _mobile_ processors (being released in December) should be on Meteor Lake, and there is expected to be performance differences.
- wmf 3y agoMeteor Lake isn't 14th gen.
- bhouston 3y ago> The 14700 actually got some new E cores, which actually makes a difference (12 vs the old 8, making a total of 28 instead of 24 cores). The reason it got more cores is I believe the CPU die is the same as the 14900, but it just had some cores disabled. So they un-disabled them.
- Arrath 3y agoYields/binning must be doing well.
- heywire 3y agoE cores have been the bane of my existence at $dayjob. I received a new laptop a while back with an i7-12800H. I make heavy use of VMware workstation virtual machines under Windows. It kept wanting to put my VMs on the E cores, which meant they crawled and showed 100% CPU usage inside the guest, but the host was mostly idle. Luckily others had run into this issue and shared some configuration settings (powercfg /powerthrottling /disable) to exempt the VMware processes. I lost so much time tracking that down, I almost went back to the old laptop.
- yourusername 3y agoFor VMware workstation it is very noticeable and there are workarounds. How much random software is being scheduled on the wrong cores and not noticed because it's "fast enough" or people don't have a baseline of performance to expect? After i got a work laptop with e cores i will make sure to avoid them for any personal devices i buy myself.
- phkahler 3y agoIMHO too many engineers (software devs in particular) think things are fine if there is a way to configure things the way you want. IMHO having to worry about which cores a process is running on is unacceptable. I'm kind of dreading AMD following along with perf and efficient cores.
- minimaul 3y agoAt the moment, the closest thing AMD has to efficiency cores is Zen 4c - and it's really not an eco core in the traditional sense. https://www.techpowerup.com/310057/amd-zen-4c-not-an-e-core-35-smaller-than-zen-4-but-with-identical-ipc https://www.techpowerup.com/310057/amd-zen-4c-not-an-e-core-...
- smolder 3y agoThe asymmetrical architecture in the 7950x3D unfortunately results in similar (but less extreme) issues to e-cores. Only one CCD has a big cache, while the other clocks higher. So, it can happen that processes which love the extra cache end up running inefficiently on the higher-clocked smaller-cache cores, or the other way around, where clock-sensitive processes are throttled by running on the 3d cache cores.
- prima-facie 3y agoOn the upside these seem to be compatible with LGA1700 used by the 12th and 13th gen.
- Arrath 3y agoI should hope so, considering they're 13xxx chips with a new label and tweaked power limits!
- theSuda 3y agoI got 10th gen i5 on sale just before 11th gen came out. Works great for my gaming pc. Haven't felt the need to upgrade even when 12th gen went on sale for similar price I paid for 10th. So who are they targeting by launching barely improved chips? Anyone with a decent pc won't upgrade unless there is something substantial and hyped about it.
- Beijinger 3y agoYou seem up to date with Intel processors. Would you be so kind to give me advice: I want to buy a used 15" Dell XPS. What processor should I buy? I think they range from i7 to i11 or something. I do nothing fancy, don't play computer games or something, no video editing.
- nashashmi 3y agoDesktop? laptop?
- WesolyKubeczek 3y agoA 15" desktop?
- flakiness 3y agoDepending on the generation but i5 vs i7 has larger difference (number of cores) and i7 vs i9 is mostly clock speed. Also there are factors like battery consumption. The lower-end CPU uses less power so the battery lasts long. Same can be said for GPUs but if you play games you probably want NVIDIA GPU even though it is worse battery-wise.
- suprjami 3y agoLiterally any computer made in the last 10 years with an i3 or better will meet your needs.
- radiojosh 3y agoEh, no. Maybe the last five years. Anything older than 8th Gen Intel processor won't run Windows 11 without some hacking. Sure, Windows 11 isn't all that well liked, but it's not a good idea to buy a system that won't even run the newest OS. You're going to be out of support before you know it. 8th gen processors were released in 2018. Also, a ten year old system is likely to have a spinning hard disk instead of an SSD. Spinning hard disks are frustratingly slow. Also, before the 8th gen release, you couldn't even easily find a 14 inch or smaller laptop with a 4-core CPU because of the cooling requirements. I think a 4 core processor is becoming somewhat of a necessity these days.
- topspin 3y agoI have an 11700K and a 3070ti. Both of these were panned by GN and others as somehow pointless. Somehow I'm happily running here, fast and stable with everything I throw at it. You can safely ignore the youtuberati's views on what should or should not exist. This i7-14700K has bumped frequencies, added E cores and increased "Smart Cache" (3MB) and total L2 cache (4MB) and uses the existing socket. It's a fine refresh product that will do what it says on the tin for years, and given that it is a refresh of an existing, mature product, it will do so with the least possible friction.
- Goronmon 3y agoI have an 11700K and a 3070ti. Both of these were panned by GN and others as somehow pointless. "Pointless" in the context of the hardware that already existed at the time of it's release. Not "pointless" as in it doesn't function as a processor.
- TerrifiedMouse 3y ago> The only major difference so far is that these chips by default don't have the typical power limit set, so they can actually achieve about +2-3% more performance in gaming at +100% more power draw. I heard that Intel might have gotten their Digital Linear Voltage Regulator working which would decrease power consumption. It was disabled in 13th gen because it was broken.