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Just a few remarks, maybe they can help in explaining better the situation. > Calling Israels war with Hamas Apartheid is utter nonsense Yeah, nobody does tha

Just a few remarks, maybe they can help in explaining better the situation. > Calling Israels war with Hamas Apartheid is utter nonsense Yeah, nobody does that. All the major human rights organisations (Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and in Israel, B'Tselem) agree in defining the regime imposed by Israel in the West Bank (not Gaza!) as apartheid. This is because an Israeli citizen in the West Bank (outside Israel proper) enjoys civil rights that his neighbours don't have- despite the power over both ultimately resting in the Israeli state. However, also don't forget that the West Bank and Gaza are part of the same country (or aspirational one)- so it's not exactly fair to say that the people of Gaza should not be bothered by what happens in the West Bank and vice-versa, they are just two regions of the same country. We would not say that it is unjustified for Texans to go to war if New York were attacked. https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/isra... https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-... https://www.btselem.org/topic/apartheid https://www.btselem.org/topic/apartheid > Hamas is the reason we don't have a Palestinian state Hamas is only in power in Gaza. The West Bank is governed by the much more moderate Fatah, and they still don't have a Palestinian state. However, Hamas is obviously a problem: so much so that it's known that Israel secretly supported it to weaken and divide their more moderate political counterparts. Also, note that the Likud party (Netanyahu's) has denied the right to the existence of a Palestinian state since its first charter: "a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty." https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform... https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082 https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-... https://www.tbsnews.net/hamas-israel-war/how-israel-went-helping-create-hamas-bombing-it-718378 https://www.tbsnews.net/hamas-israel-war/how-israel-went-hel...

invalidname 3y ago
Yes. The situation in the occupied territories is 100% terrible. > Hamas is only in power in Gaza. The West Bank is governed by the much more moderate Fatah, and they still don't have a Palestinian state. This became the situation after Oslo was effectively dead (thanks to the Hamas). > However, Hamas is obviously a problem: so much so that it's known that Israel secretly supported it to weaken and divide their more moderate political counterparts: THIS!!! But it isn't a "secret". Netanyahu said it out loud in 2019, I don't have the link though. He purposely supported the Hamas to weaken the PLO/Fatah and prevent the chance of a Palestinian state. He did some of that as far back as the 90's during the Oslo accord to stop that process. It's insane. We've been trying to get rid of that f*ing criminal but he's a sticky demagogue who always lands on his feet. Even now when he clearly bears a lot of the fault for this recent attack he still holds onto power and refuses to accept responsibility.
- throw310822 3y ago
  But then how is it possible to say "Hamas is the reason there is no Palestinian state"? The reason there is no Palestinian state is that Israel has done anything possible to prevent its creation, including supporting terrorists to then point to as the reason the Palestinian state cannot be allowed. If you remove Hamas, Israel will make up new excuses or create new terror groups. As I reported in my first comment, the original charter of Likud said it plain and clear: "a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty." "From the river to the sea", indeed.
  - invalidname 3y ago
    > But then how is it possible to say "Hamas is the reason there is no Palestinian state"? The reason there is no Palestinian state is that Israel has done anything possible to prevent its creation, including supporting terrorists to then point to as the reason the Palestinian state cannot be allowed. That's a very good and indeed sad point. I think we were very close to a Palestinian state in the 90s. The stars aligned and both sides had leaders with enough sway to pull that off. The Likud was beaten and then Hamas started blowing up things. That's a moment in time I'm talking about when I'm blaming Hamas for the lack of Palestinian state. That moment in time is gone. Even if the Hamas vanished tomorrow there are no longer leaders on either side who are willing/able to move that dream forward. Bibi essentially destroyed that potential and also set into the minds of Israelis that there's no partner for peace. Removing the Hamas is one step, removing the Likud is another. Unfortunately, even both of these steps won't be enough to restart that process.

invalidname 3y ago

Yes. The situation in the occupied territories is 100% terrible. > Hamas is only in power in Gaza. The West Bank is governed by the much more moderate Fatah, and they still don't have a Palestinian state. This became the situation after Oslo was effectively dead (thanks to the Hamas). > However, Hamas is obviously a problem: so much so that it's known that Israel secretly supported it to weaken and divide their more moderate political counterparts: THIS!!! But it isn't a "secret". Netanyahu said it out loud in 2019, I don't have the link though. He purposely supported the Hamas to weaken the PLO/Fatah and prevent the chance of a Palestinian state. He did some of that as far back as the 90's during the Oslo accord to stop that process. It's insane. We've been trying to get rid of that f*ing criminal but he's a sticky demagogue who always lands on his feet. Even now when he clearly bears a lot of the fault for this recent attack he still holds onto power and refuses to accept responsibility.

throw310822 3y ago
But then how is it possible to say "Hamas is the reason there is no Palestinian state"? The reason there is no Palestinian state is that Israel has done anything possible to prevent its creation, including supporting terrorists to then point to as the reason the Palestinian state cannot be allowed. If you remove Hamas, Israel will make up new excuses or create new terror groups. As I reported in my first comment, the original charter of Likud said it plain and clear: "a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty." "From the river to the sea", indeed.
- invalidname 3y ago
  > But then how is it possible to say "Hamas is the reason there is no Palestinian state"? The reason there is no Palestinian state is that Israel has done anything possible to prevent its creation, including supporting terrorists to then point to as the reason the Palestinian state cannot be allowed. That's a very good and indeed sad point. I think we were very close to a Palestinian state in the 90s. The stars aligned and both sides had leaders with enough sway to pull that off. The Likud was beaten and then Hamas started blowing up things. That's a moment in time I'm talking about when I'm blaming Hamas for the lack of Palestinian state. That moment in time is gone. Even if the Hamas vanished tomorrow there are no longer leaders on either side who are willing/able to move that dream forward. Bibi essentially destroyed that potential and also set into the minds of Israelis that there's no partner for peace. Removing the Hamas is one step, removing the Likud is another. Unfortunately, even both of these steps won't be enough to restart that process.