4 ms·

You can go to their brick-and-mortar building, say you want your money, call the police, give them a hard time even if they can't fix your issue, so they try to

You can go to their brick-and-mortar building, say you want your money, call the police, give them a hard time even if they can't fix your issue, so they try to avoid it next time. Pure online banking doesn't offer this option. For instance, I still even keep my printed quarter receipts just in case. People trust technology too much, it's all well until it isn't, and you understand how much of your life you trusted to those companies.

alxmng 3y ago
Good luck with that. I had my account frozen at the biggest bank in USA, with no notice or explanation. When I went into the bank they pretty much said "sorry". Almost two weeks later my account was unfrozen again without notice or explanation.
dalyons 3y ago
There are a particular set of AML/KYC laws for which none of that will ever help. They can’t tell you why, they can’t stop it next time. It sucks but there’s nothing any financial org can do about it.
- toyg 3y ago
  Those are the money laundering / antiterrorism bits, which are pretty hard to trigger. The reality is that online banks rely on "AI" for their basic anti-fraud efforts much more than real banks do, and these are the results: arbitrary shutdowns and no customer service. But hey, I'm sure doing customer service wit ChatGPT will solve it (/s).
  - KptMarchewa 3y ago
    If they need source of funds, it's AML/CTF, not fraud.
  - anonzzzies 3y ago
    But that's not only online banks; my brick-and-mortar bank did the same thing, froze my account until I provided papers (they already had, just updated). I went to the closest physical branch and they told me 'blah dep flagged this, nothing we can do'.
    - true_religion 3y ago
      I think the point as more that you can get escalate things with physical authorities (police, courts) if they have a nearby local physical branch. Their internal policies ofcourse will remain the same.
      - dalyons 3y ago
        Police aren’t going to help you with bank issues, and the courts don’t care if there’s a local branch or not, as the hypothetical lawsuits are filed against HQ . It’s just not true. It makes people like OP _feel_ better because they have someone to yell at, but it doesn’t help.
  - 15457345234 3y ago
    > online banks You keep using that word and it's masking the real problem here. The problem is that this company isn't a bank and isn't regulated as a bank. If they were a bank this wouldn't be happening. There would be recourse. Use banks. Keep your money in regulated institutions. History has countless examples why. I'm just gonna come out here and say 'don't use fintech companies'
    - fragmede 3y ago
      Heads up that all financial institutions in the US, regardless of if they're regulated as a bank or not, are subject to following KYC/AML laws. Bank's are just as much, if not more subject to scrutiny in this area. You can't use a bank to skirt KYC/AML laws, sorry. And you have a similar amount of recourse (little to none) if you run afoul of them.
      - hfuyf65 3y ago
        [dead]
  - jon-wood 3y ago
    It really isn't that hard to trigger to them, the UK Sanctions List[0] is huge, and contains quite a lot of broad descriptions that doubtless result in people getting swept up in automated checks of the list. Is your name Ali Khalili? Cool, you're on the sanctions list, because that's literally all the identifying factors provided for an Iranian general. I'm sure once it flags the bank will reasonably quickly take a look at your details and realise you're not in fact an Iranian general, but that will take time, and in the meantime your account has been frozen. [0] https://docs.fcdo.gov.uk/docs/UK-Sanctions-List.html https://docs.fcdo.gov.uk/docs/UK-Sanctions-List.html
- rightbyte 3y ago
  I have a feeling they just blame those and do low effort bulk screening.
pawelwentpawel 3y ago
Unfortunately, not always. I had once my account frozen by one of the UK's largest banks for days. The reason? Apparently they didn't have my mobile phone number. They never asked for it. Also, on multiple occasions their online banking was so broken that one wasn't even able to use it. The plus is that indeed, if something goes wrong, after a long time of inconvenient waiting, a human will eventually pick up the phone. The drawback is that sometimes they are so technologically broken that fixing things will take ages. I recommend distributing even small sums of money across as many accounts as you have. Some in Revolut, some in Wise, some in a normal bank. There is a number of reasons for which access to your bank account can be blocked (fraud attempt, stolen SIM card, stolen card etc.) so the more backup you have, the better off you should be. As the person above said, keeping printed receipts might also be useful for legal purposes.

alxmng 3y ago

Good luck with that. I had my account frozen at the biggest bank in USA, with no notice or explanation. When I went into the bank they pretty much said "sorry". Almost two weeks later my account was unfrozen again without notice or explanation.

dalyons 3y ago

There are a particular set of AML/KYC laws for which none of that will ever help. They can’t tell you why, they can’t stop it next time. It sucks but there’s nothing any financial org can do about it.

toyg 3y ago
Those are the money laundering / antiterrorism bits, which are pretty hard to trigger. The reality is that online banks rely on "AI" for their basic anti-fraud efforts much more than real banks do, and these are the results: arbitrary shutdowns and no customer service. But hey, I'm sure doing customer service wit ChatGPT will solve it (/s).
- KptMarchewa 3y ago
  If they need source of funds, it's AML/CTF, not fraud.
- anonzzzies 3y ago
  But that's not only online banks; my brick-and-mortar bank did the same thing, froze my account until I provided papers (they already had, just updated). I went to the closest physical branch and they told me 'blah dep flagged this, nothing we can do'.
  - true_religion 3y ago
    I think the point as more that you can get escalate things with physical authorities (police, courts) if they have a nearby local physical branch. Their internal policies ofcourse will remain the same.
    - dalyons 3y ago
      Police aren’t going to help you with bank issues, and the courts don’t care if there’s a local branch or not, as the hypothetical lawsuits are filed against HQ . It’s just not true. It makes people like OP _feel_ better because they have someone to yell at, but it doesn’t help.
- 15457345234 3y ago
  > online banks You keep using that word and it's masking the real problem here. The problem is that this company isn't a bank and isn't regulated as a bank. If they were a bank this wouldn't be happening. There would be recourse. Use banks. Keep your money in regulated institutions. History has countless examples why. I'm just gonna come out here and say 'don't use fintech companies'
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Heads up that all financial institutions in the US, regardless of if they're regulated as a bank or not, are subject to following KYC/AML laws. Bank's are just as much, if not more subject to scrutiny in this area. You can't use a bank to skirt KYC/AML laws, sorry. And you have a similar amount of recourse (little to none) if you run afoul of them.
    - hfuyf65 3y ago
      [dead]
- jon-wood 3y ago
  It really isn't that hard to trigger to them, the UK Sanctions List[0] is huge, and contains quite a lot of broad descriptions that doubtless result in people getting swept up in automated checks of the list. Is your name Ali Khalili? Cool, you're on the sanctions list, because that's literally all the identifying factors provided for an Iranian general. I'm sure once it flags the bank will reasonably quickly take a look at your details and realise you're not in fact an Iranian general, but that will take time, and in the meantime your account has been frozen. [0] https://docs.fcdo.gov.uk/docs/UK-Sanctions-List.html https://docs.fcdo.gov.uk/docs/UK-Sanctions-List.html
rightbyte 3y ago
I have a feeling they just blame those and do low effort bulk screening.

pawelwentpawel 3y ago

Unfortunately, not always. I had once my account frozen by one of the UK's largest banks for days. The reason? Apparently they didn't have my mobile phone number. They never asked for it. Also, on multiple occasions their online banking was so broken that one wasn't even able to use it. The plus is that indeed, if something goes wrong, after a long time of inconvenient waiting, a human will eventually pick up the phone. The drawback is that sometimes they are so technologically broken that fixing things will take ages. I recommend distributing even small sums of money across as many accounts as you have. Some in Revolut, some in Wise, some in a normal bank. There is a number of reasons for which access to your bank account can be blocked (fraud attempt, stolen SIM card, stolen card etc.) so the more backup you have, the better off you should be. As the person above said, keeping printed receipts might also be useful for legal purposes.