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The current AML/CTF regulations frameworks can only lead to extremely opaque implementations and end-user experiences. For that reason alone, it makes sense to

The current AML/CTF regulations frameworks can only lead to extremely opaque implementations and end-user experiences. For that reason alone, it makes sense to keep the bulk of your money in a place (meaning, a mainstreet financial institution) where you'll be able to get in touch with a real human and have proper ways of recourse should your account be the unfortunate target of overzealous fraud-screening algorithms. You don't want a FAANG-like random termination account procedures with anything related to your money, which is unfortunately the experience that many new-gen finance apps are delivering right now.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
True, while revolut/cash app provide some services banks don't, I only keep minimal amount of money in them at any given time, and for as short time as possible.
philipwhiuk 3y ago
I don't know that this would have been any better - they have the same fraud/AML laws to comply with.
- amerkhalid 3y ago
  We don’t hear about traditional banks freezing money as much online banks. Maybe people who use traditional banks are mostly running traditional businesses with well understood risk profiles. Also traditional banks make you go through a lot of paperwork upfront, so they probably don’t have as much as risk online banks which approve everyone without much paperwork. So that’s why online banks aggressively block anyone who is high risk and start doing big enough volume.
- cbg0 3y ago
  It definitely would have, because you can walk into a branch office and talk to a real person, not some AI chat bot that creates a ticket after boring you to death with unhelpful answers, and then you end up waiting for that to be looked at and async back and forth that can take days.
  - philipwhiuk 3y ago
    In all likelyhood they have little more to go on than the same script the AI has, except maybe they also watched a training video published a long time ago that is now out of date.
  - ritzaco 3y ago
    interestingly my brick-and-mortar bank (ING Netherlands) also stopped accepting walk in appointments during covid and conveniently kept that on now. So you have to deal with this shit anyway just to talk to someone, but yes at least there are still people
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      And banks are closing all of their physical presences one after the other. Pretty soon they'll just be a bank of computers and an AI for all of your interaction. I hope to have shut down my business activities by then.
      - toyg 3y ago
        That, in theory, should create the space for a challenger bank providing real-people interaction. Metro Bank seems to be doing that (yes, they are currently in trouble, but so are a lot of other banks - interest rate changes caught a lot of folks off-guard).
        jacquesm 3y ago
        Service as a Service :)
        rightbyte 3y ago
        Enshittification seems sticky though. It takes a while before customers realize that the "tech banks'" support are like trying to talk to Google. We will have to pay a premium over today's price for a normal bank.
        deleted 3y ago
- thiago_fm 3y ago
  You can go to their brick-and-mortar building, say you want your money, call the police, give them a hard time even if they can't fix your issue, so they try to avoid it next time. Pure online banking doesn't offer this option. For instance, I still even keep my printed quarter receipts just in case. People trust technology too much, it's all well until it isn't, and you understand how much of your life you trusted to those companies.
  - alxmng 3y ago
    Good luck with that. I had my account frozen at the biggest bank in USA, with no notice or explanation. When I went into the bank they pretty much said "sorry". Almost two weeks later my account was unfrozen again without notice or explanation.
  - dalyons 3y ago
    There are a particular set of AML/KYC laws for which none of that will ever help. They can’t tell you why, they can’t stop it next time. It sucks but there’s nothing any financial org can do about it.
    - toyg 3y ago
      Those are the money laundering / antiterrorism bits, which are pretty hard to trigger. The reality is that online banks rely on "AI" for their basic anti-fraud efforts much more than real banks do, and these are the results: arbitrary shutdowns and no customer service. But hey, I'm sure doing customer service wit ChatGPT will solve it (/s).
      - KptMarchewa 3y ago
        If they need source of funds, it's AML/CTF, not fraud.
      - anonzzzies 3y ago
        But that's not only online banks; my brick-and-mortar bank did the same thing, froze my account until I provided papers (they already had, just updated). I went to the closest physical branch and they told me 'blah dep flagged this, nothing we can do'.
- dathinab 3y ago
  but they have a very different approach wrt. _how_ they comply with them also as important there is an additional hop in the money transfer involving two institutions, this might not help you if there is e.g. money frozen because of an police investigation, but for algorithms running rogue it can help to have money in two different organizations.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago

True, while revolut/cash app provide some services banks don't, I only keep minimal amount of money in them at any given time, and for as short time as possible.

philipwhiuk 3y ago

I don't know that this would have been any better - they have the same fraud/AML laws to comply with.

amerkhalid 3y ago
We don’t hear about traditional banks freezing money as much online banks. Maybe people who use traditional banks are mostly running traditional businesses with well understood risk profiles. Also traditional banks make you go through a lot of paperwork upfront, so they probably don’t have as much as risk online banks which approve everyone without much paperwork. So that’s why online banks aggressively block anyone who is high risk and start doing big enough volume.
cbg0 3y ago
It definitely would have, because you can walk into a branch office and talk to a real person, not some AI chat bot that creates a ticket after boring you to death with unhelpful answers, and then you end up waiting for that to be looked at and async back and forth that can take days.
- philipwhiuk 3y ago
  In all likelyhood they have little more to go on than the same script the AI has, except maybe they also watched a training video published a long time ago that is now out of date.
- ritzaco 3y ago
  interestingly my brick-and-mortar bank (ING Netherlands) also stopped accepting walk in appointments during covid and conveniently kept that on now. So you have to deal with this shit anyway just to talk to someone, but yes at least there are still people
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    And banks are closing all of their physical presences one after the other. Pretty soon they'll just be a bank of computers and an AI for all of your interaction. I hope to have shut down my business activities by then.
    - toyg 3y ago
      That, in theory, should create the space for a challenger bank providing real-people interaction. Metro Bank seems to be doing that (yes, they are currently in trouble, but so are a lot of other banks - interest rate changes caught a lot of folks off-guard).
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        Service as a Service :)
      - rightbyte 3y ago
        Enshittification seems sticky though. It takes a while before customers realize that the "tech banks'" support are like trying to talk to Google. We will have to pay a premium over today's price for a normal bank.
        deleted 3y ago
thiago_fm 3y ago
You can go to their brick-and-mortar building, say you want your money, call the police, give them a hard time even if they can't fix your issue, so they try to avoid it next time. Pure online banking doesn't offer this option. For instance, I still even keep my printed quarter receipts just in case. People trust technology too much, it's all well until it isn't, and you understand how much of your life you trusted to those companies.
- alxmng 3y ago
  Good luck with that. I had my account frozen at the biggest bank in USA, with no notice or explanation. When I went into the bank they pretty much said "sorry". Almost two weeks later my account was unfrozen again without notice or explanation.
- dalyons 3y ago
  There are a particular set of AML/KYC laws for which none of that will ever help. They can’t tell you why, they can’t stop it next time. It sucks but there’s nothing any financial org can do about it.
  - toyg 3y ago
    Those are the money laundering / antiterrorism bits, which are pretty hard to trigger. The reality is that online banks rely on "AI" for their basic anti-fraud efforts much more than real banks do, and these are the results: arbitrary shutdowns and no customer service. But hey, I'm sure doing customer service wit ChatGPT will solve it (/s).
    - KptMarchewa 3y ago
      If they need source of funds, it's AML/CTF, not fraud.
    - anonzzzies 3y ago
      But that's not only online banks; my brick-and-mortar bank did the same thing, froze my account until I provided papers (they already had, just updated). I went to the closest physical branch and they told me 'blah dep flagged this, nothing we can do'.
dathinab 3y ago
but they have a very different approach wrt. _how_ they comply with them also as important there is an additional hop in the money transfer involving two institutions, this might not help you if there is e.g. money frozen because of an police investigation, but for algorithms running rogue it can help to have money in two different organizations.