6 ms·

Mate, its not hamas claiming its Israel, its aljazeera and civilians on the ground. And if hamas had such capabilities, why didn't they use them yet, huh?

mupuff1234 3y ago
Since when can civilians on the ground know where the rocket that hit them came from? And we don't know what capabilities yet, we still don't know what happened.
- tguvot 3y ago
  you people still seriously having this discussion ? there are photos/videos now. a dozen of burned cars on parking lot. hospital is in one piece. all walls/roofs/etc are intact.
  - mupuff1234 3y ago
    Im sorry I'm not frantically searching for all photos and videos right now, I'm just waiting for actual legitimate press / organizations to investigate.
    - tguvot 3y ago
      cnn and bbc wrote "we can't independently verify who responsible and number of dead", posted photos of burned parking lot and checked out. the end
  - jacooper 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Parent asked: > Since when can civilians on the ground know where the rocket that hit them came from? And you replied: > there are photos/videos now. a dozen of burned cars on parking lot. hospital is in one piece. all walls/roofs/etc are intact. I don't see how your reply answers the question of where the rocket came from, just what you think the rocket hit.
    - tguvot 3y ago
      https://e3.365dm.com/23/10/2048x1152/skynews-radar-hospital-gaza_6325168.jpg?20231018010145 https://e3.365dm.com/23/10/2048x1152/skynews-radar-hospital-... https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1714390254935851272.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1714390254935851272.html
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        Thanks for the context! Although you could have made that more clearer in your comment, and you are still leaving me to infer the details from your links. But anyways, I see your point now (weird that your comment was already downvoted).
        tguvot 3y ago
        yeah, i usual tend to leave to people to infer details. this way they can come to their own conclusions and no, it's not weird. it's common on ycombinator. in general i find it troubling that statement by hamas taken by everybody at face value, without ask for any proofs (besides 20 sec footage of something burning and 30 sec of doctors taking care of somebody somewhere there was absolutely nothing backing 500 dead and more under rubble). on the other side when idf publishes videos, photos, call intercepts, radar plotes, etc; it's "well, IDF has history of killing people and lying. we will reserve our judgement till we will see this confirmed by independent investigation".
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        I think conclusion followed by reasoning is more common on HN. Both sides have a history of "the other side has a history of killing people and lying, we will reserve our judgement". BOTH sides have a history of killing people and lying about it. But then on both sides there are a lot of innocent people being killed regardless.
        tguvot 3y ago
        despite common belief, IDF tends to own mistakes and if there was some kind of breach of rules of engagement - off to jail you go.it doesn't mean that idf doesn't kill anybody. it means that things not white and black as they seen on tv. there was entertaining thread on reddit a few days ago, where people were searching for "widely documented mass rapes by idf". the only documentation going back to statements from 1969 or so. after this everybody were split into 3 camps: - very good in coverup (kinda impossible given amount of human rights organizations that document everything) - idf dehumanizes palestinians so idf is repulsed from idea of rape - idf actually has some moral backbon
  - enterprise_cog 3y ago
    Sounds like evidence of a JDAM airburst.
    - mupuff1234 3y ago
      So why is it more likely to be a JDAM airburst than a failed jihad rocket? Especially when we have the live footage from al Jazeera of a failed launch followed by an explosion at the same time as the hospital explosion.
      - enterprise_cog 3y ago
        Israel has been bombing Gaza nonstop for the past week. The damage is consistent with a bomb airbursting, not a rocket falling and exploding. No crater. Damage from other rocket attacks is no where near the level of damage in this attack. Here is the actual attack: https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/1714337776873640216 https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/1714337776873640216 Find me any other Hamas rocket that does that much damage. Especially when broken up and falling to the ground.
        tguvot 3y ago
        pick one https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/irans-rockets-palestinian-groups https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/irans-rockets-palestini...
        enterprise_cog 3y ago
        Article only mentions the payload of one rocket, the Badr-3, which wasn’t the rocket used here according to you. So it is a useless link. Go find physical evidence of a Hamas rocket doing the amount of damage that was done to the hospital.
        tguvot 3y ago
        just to make sure that we are aligned, what damage are we talking about ? small pothole on the parking lot, few burned cars and 5 clay tiles off the place on the roof ?

mupuff1234 3y ago

Since when can civilians on the ground know where the rocket that hit them came from? And we don't know what capabilities yet, we still don't know what happened.

tguvot 3y ago
you people still seriously having this discussion ? there are photos/videos now. a dozen of burned cars on parking lot. hospital is in one piece. all walls/roofs/etc are intact.
- mupuff1234 3y ago
  Im sorry I'm not frantically searching for all photos and videos right now, I'm just waiting for actual legitimate press / organizations to investigate.
  - tguvot 3y ago
    cnn and bbc wrote "we can't independently verify who responsible and number of dead", posted photos of burned parking lot and checked out. the end
- jacooper 3y ago
  [flagged]
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Parent asked: > Since when can civilians on the ground know where the rocket that hit them came from? And you replied: > there are photos/videos now. a dozen of burned cars on parking lot. hospital is in one piece. all walls/roofs/etc are intact. I don't see how your reply answers the question of where the rocket came from, just what you think the rocket hit.
  - tguvot 3y ago
    https://e3.365dm.com/23/10/2048x1152/skynews-radar-hospital-gaza_6325168.jpg?20231018010145 https://e3.365dm.com/23/10/2048x1152/skynews-radar-hospital-... https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1714390254935851272.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1714390254935851272.html
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Thanks for the context! Although you could have made that more clearer in your comment, and you are still leaving me to infer the details from your links. But anyways, I see your point now (weird that your comment was already downvoted).
      - tguvot 3y ago
        yeah, i usual tend to leave to people to infer details. this way they can come to their own conclusions and no, it's not weird. it's common on ycombinator. in general i find it troubling that statement by hamas taken by everybody at face value, without ask for any proofs (besides 20 sec footage of something burning and 30 sec of doctors taking care of somebody somewhere there was absolutely nothing backing 500 dead and more under rubble). on the other side when idf publishes videos, photos, call intercepts, radar plotes, etc; it's "well, IDF has history of killing people and lying. we will reserve our judgement till we will see this confirmed by independent investigation".
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        I think conclusion followed by reasoning is more common on HN. Both sides have a history of "the other side has a history of killing people and lying, we will reserve our judgement". BOTH sides have a history of killing people and lying about it. But then on both sides there are a lot of innocent people being killed regardless.
        tguvot 3y ago
        despite common belief, IDF tends to own mistakes and if there was some kind of breach of rules of engagement - off to jail you go.it doesn't mean that idf doesn't kill anybody. it means that things not white and black as they seen on tv. there was entertaining thread on reddit a few days ago, where people were searching for "widely documented mass rapes by idf". the only documentation going back to statements from 1969 or so. after this everybody were split into 3 camps: - very good in coverup (kinda impossible given amount of human rights organizations that document everything) - idf dehumanizes palestinians so idf is repulsed from idea of rape - idf actually has some moral backbon
- enterprise_cog 3y ago
  Sounds like evidence of a JDAM airburst.
  - mupuff1234 3y ago
    So why is it more likely to be a JDAM airburst than a failed jihad rocket? Especially when we have the live footage from al Jazeera of a failed launch followed by an explosion at the same time as the hospital explosion.
    - enterprise_cog 3y ago
      Israel has been bombing Gaza nonstop for the past week. The damage is consistent with a bomb airbursting, not a rocket falling and exploding. No crater. Damage from other rocket attacks is no where near the level of damage in this attack. Here is the actual attack: https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/1714337776873640216 https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/1714337776873640216 Find me any other Hamas rocket that does that much damage. Especially when broken up and falling to the ground.
      - tguvot 3y ago
        pick one https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/irans-rockets-palestinian-groups https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/irans-rockets-palestini...
        enterprise_cog 3y ago
        Article only mentions the payload of one rocket, the Badr-3, which wasn’t the rocket used here according to you. So it is a useless link. Go find physical evidence of a Hamas rocket doing the amount of damage that was done to the hospital.
        tguvot 3y ago
        just to make sure that we are aligned, what damage are we talking about ? small pothole on the parking lot, few burned cars and 5 clay tiles off the place on the roof ?