4 ms·

I agree people fly around the globe, putting tons of Co2 into the air, to simply take a instagram photo! Who cares if the travel industry dies? This is a emerge

I agree people fly around the globe, putting tons of Co2 into the air, to simply take a instagram photo! Who cares if the travel industry dies? This is a emergency! Or will only the luxuries your socioeconomic class doesn't engage in be targeted?

toomuchtodo 3y ago
If you fly, you should be required to pay to offset using direct air capture at whatever the current market price is. I pay the fully loaded cost of all CO2 emissions my family is responsible for. The argument isn't "don't do this", the argument is "either avoid emissions or pay for them." Are you comparing the light vehicle emissions of the low and middle class to discretionary pickup truck purchases, priced between $50k and $80k? If you want to drive such a vehicle, and it is a combustion version, as long as whatever mechanism is dispensing the fuel ensures you're paying for that CO2 to be sequestered back underground in a stable form, by all means, Canyonero! But that is not what is on offer at scale. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI_Jl5WFQkA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI_Jl5WFQkA
- willcipriano 3y ago
  > I pay the fully loaded cost of all CO2 emissions my family is responsible for. Carbon credits are a scam, so no you don't.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    I pay Climeworks for annual emissions, all of our vehicles are EVs, and all of our home energy is sourced from solar. You should do more research before making inaccurate statements that "Carbon credits are a scam." Some are, some are not. The ones that aren't are, of course, more expensive. https://climeworks.com/carbon-removal-as-a-solution-to-fight-global-warming https://climeworks.com/carbon-removal-as-a-solution-to-fight... https://climeworks.com/news/climeworks-achievedvalidationfromdnv https://climeworks.com/news/climeworks-achievedvalidationfro...
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      Since it's a emergency shouldn't you buy as many carbon credits as you can afford and skip the vacation?
      - toomuchtodo 3y ago
        I am not going to keep arguing with you because your ideology compels you to treat me the way you do, in a derogatory, condescending fashion. I am doing my small part (as I think everyone should, in proportion to their means and impact), and I work to find leverage points for scale (early investor in Tesla, donating to political reps who supported the Inflation Reduction Act). If you don't agree with me, that is your right, based upon your mental model. I am satisfied with what I can do with what I have, and mostly with the present velocity of change. I don't need buy in from people like yourself. The data shows it isn't needed, nor material to solve for climate change. If you don't believe climate change is real, or of the level of risk communicated by domain experts, we have nothing to discuss. EDIT: I'm not telling the poor how to live. Living is expensive. It has always been terrible to be poor. That is what subsidies are for, to help the poor deal with climate change. I fully support subsidizing those who need the subsidies to accomplish these goals. Increase taxes if necessary, as high as necessary.
        willcipriano 3y ago
        While you part remains small I don't think you have a leg to stand on when it comes to telling those much poorer and less fortunate than you, how to live. They have had a rough time lately let's not make transportation even more expensive for them. They can have some luxuries if it isn't a big enough deal for you to give up yours.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > I don't think you have a leg to stand on when it comes to telling those much poorer how to live Doesn't the fact that they're doing more than others give them that leg? > have had a rough time lately let's not make transportation even more expensive for them This is a false economy. On whom do you think the costs of climate change are disproportionately falling? We're already starting to see what the shutdown of local gasoline refining and distribution looks like; would you prefer they be stranded in increasingly expensive-to-operate vehicles with limited resale value instead?

toomuchtodo 3y ago

If you fly, you should be required to pay to offset using direct air capture at whatever the current market price is. I pay the fully loaded cost of all CO2 emissions my family is responsible for. The argument isn't "don't do this", the argument is "either avoid emissions or pay for them." Are you comparing the light vehicle emissions of the low and middle class to discretionary pickup truck purchases, priced between $50k and $80k? If you want to drive such a vehicle, and it is a combustion version, as long as whatever mechanism is dispensing the fuel ensures you're paying for that CO2 to be sequestered back underground in a stable form, by all means, Canyonero! But that is not what is on offer at scale. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI_Jl5WFQkA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI_Jl5WFQkA

willcipriano 3y ago
> I pay the fully loaded cost of all CO2 emissions my family is responsible for. Carbon credits are a scam, so no you don't.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  I pay Climeworks for annual emissions, all of our vehicles are EVs, and all of our home energy is sourced from solar. You should do more research before making inaccurate statements that "Carbon credits are a scam." Some are, some are not. The ones that aren't are, of course, more expensive. https://climeworks.com/carbon-removal-as-a-solution-to-fight-global-warming https://climeworks.com/carbon-removal-as-a-solution-to-fight... https://climeworks.com/news/climeworks-achievedvalidationfromdnv https://climeworks.com/news/climeworks-achievedvalidationfro...
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    Since it's a emergency shouldn't you buy as many carbon credits as you can afford and skip the vacation?
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      I am not going to keep arguing with you because your ideology compels you to treat me the way you do, in a derogatory, condescending fashion. I am doing my small part (as I think everyone should, in proportion to their means and impact), and I work to find leverage points for scale (early investor in Tesla, donating to political reps who supported the Inflation Reduction Act). If you don't agree with me, that is your right, based upon your mental model. I am satisfied with what I can do with what I have, and mostly with the present velocity of change. I don't need buy in from people like yourself. The data shows it isn't needed, nor material to solve for climate change. If you don't believe climate change is real, or of the level of risk communicated by domain experts, we have nothing to discuss. EDIT: I'm not telling the poor how to live. Living is expensive. It has always been terrible to be poor. That is what subsidies are for, to help the poor deal with climate change. I fully support subsidizing those who need the subsidies to accomplish these goals. Increase taxes if necessary, as high as necessary.
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        While you part remains small I don't think you have a leg to stand on when it comes to telling those much poorer and less fortunate than you, how to live. They have had a rough time lately let's not make transportation even more expensive for them. They can have some luxuries if it isn't a big enough deal for you to give up yours.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > I don't think you have a leg to stand on when it comes to telling those much poorer how to live Doesn't the fact that they're doing more than others give them that leg? > have had a rough time lately let's not make transportation even more expensive for them This is a false economy. On whom do you think the costs of climate change are disproportionately falling? We're already starting to see what the shutdown of local gasoline refining and distribution looks like; would you prefer they be stranded in increasingly expensive-to-operate vehicles with limited resale value instead?