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Do they people making these decisions not know that Huawei offers A100 equivalent GPUs and CUDA like framework called Mindspore that has over 2 million develop

Do they people making these decisions not know that Huawei offers A100 equivalent GPUs and CUDA like framework called Mindspore that has over 2 million developers ? Pushing the Chinese tech giants like Alibaba, Tencent and Baidu to work and grow this platform is the opposite of what these sanctions intend to achieve. What an own goal!

djoletina 3y ago
Completely agree, tbh both decisions (sanctions and no sanctions) have certain bad implications. But imho sanctions are much more dangerous in the long run for the US foreign policy.
throwaway4good 3y ago
It is unclear. Perhaps they think that Huawei / smic is constrained on how much they can produce.
- Frost1x 3y ago
  As an armchair observer, China and businesses within it seem to have the general upper hand when it comes to production of most of anything. One popular tag line is that they lack true innovative IP type work but I'd say that's highly debatable. When it comes to pretty much any sort of physical production, the US seems at a disadvantage largely due to leadership and ownership direction starting from many decades ago.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    I disassemble most things I get from china. There is a lot of engineering innovation, but the innovation isn't aimed at the user of the device. The innovation is in ways to make a functional device with fewer manufacturing steps, cheaper. However, one day those engineering minds will divert their attention from making devices cheaper and more efficient towards making the same devices perform better and have more features. At that point, the consumer will see the innovation.
xgl5k 3y ago
Both the US and China are working to decouple their economies long term, starting with the most critical sectors first. Both sides are aware that there are short term consequences and some of their businesses may suffer but that in the long run decoupling will be better for their respective countries.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- pk-protect-ai 3y ago
  >> in the long run decoupling will be better for their respective countries Globalization and collaboration making a huge difference in pace of the progress. Segregation and compartmentalization are very bad for everyone in a long run.
  - SubiculumCode 3y ago
    probably yes. although that's a bit of an article of faith. in analogy, I wonder how much progress and innovation, and general world progress, has resulted from opening the internet to include Russia, for example. Sometimes including actors that do not conform to certain ethical standards and trust worthy behaviors, leads to spreading infection and danger to the world. Another analogy: Incorporating cancer cells into the body rather than sanctioning their growth, is a sure path to death. this is not a directly equate China to cancer, especially the Chinese people to cancer. That's clearly incorrect. however, I do think it is correct to expect our trading partners to eventually establish trust with each other, on the geopolitical sphere, and if that fails to appear, it makes sense to diversify our strategic resources and partnerships
    - verdverm 3y ago
      > Sometimes including actors that do not conform to certain ethical standards and trust worthy behaviors, leads to spreading infection and danger to the world. The Chinese people are fine. You can see some great projects on GitHub for example. I hear Shenzen is something special. The CCP is the problem, not the Chinese generally
nine_k 3y ago
Success rates may differ. Do you know that AMD makes powerful GPUs that even have a general purpose programming interface called ROCm? Now try to persuade ML practitioners to switch to that ftom NVidia GPUs and CUDA.
- Aerroon 3y ago
  And what would happen if Nvidia got banned? ROCm would take over. All the development resources would be going into that. That's probably what's going to happen in China.
  - nine_k 3y ago
    ROCm likely won't take over, because of its flaws. Eventually, of course, either it or something else, would emerge as a solution. But it will take time. Buying time is what this ban is trying to achieve. Slowing down the rivals.
    - londons_explore 3y ago
      I think you overestimate how long such a change would take. If Nvidia was banned tomorrow, I think within 6 months another leader would emerge and be supported by all the big libraries.
      - IshKebab 3y ago
        ROCm is already supported by Pytorch apparently.
        latchkey 3y ago
        https://pytorch.org/blog/experience-power-pytorch-2.0/ https://pytorch.org/blog/experience-power-pytorch-2.0/
        londons_explore 3y ago
        My understanding is that while it is theoretically supported, the vast majority of random pytorch projects you find on GitHub will need tweaks before they'll run in ROCm
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
verdverm 3y ago
They don't really need to be pushed, the CCP has set their own goals and agenda https://cset.georgetown.edu/publication/new-chinese-ambitions-for-strategic-emerging-industries-translated/ https://cset.georgetown.edu/publication/new-chinese-ambition... That being said, decoupling increases the chances of a hot war. All this stuff is a lot like the 30s that scored humans a second world war.

djoletina 3y ago

Completely agree, tbh both decisions (sanctions and no sanctions) have certain bad implications. But imho sanctions are much more dangerous in the long run for the US foreign policy.

throwaway4good 3y ago

It is unclear. Perhaps they think that Huawei / smic is constrained on how much they can produce.

Frost1x 3y ago
As an armchair observer, China and businesses within it seem to have the general upper hand when it comes to production of most of anything. One popular tag line is that they lack true innovative IP type work but I'd say that's highly debatable. When it comes to pretty much any sort of physical production, the US seems at a disadvantage largely due to leadership and ownership direction starting from many decades ago.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  I disassemble most things I get from china. There is a lot of engineering innovation, but the innovation isn't aimed at the user of the device. The innovation is in ways to make a functional device with fewer manufacturing steps, cheaper. However, one day those engineering minds will divert their attention from making devices cheaper and more efficient towards making the same devices perform better and have more features. At that point, the consumer will see the innovation.

xgl5k 3y ago

Both the US and China are working to decouple their economies long term, starting with the most critical sectors first. Both sides are aware that there are short term consequences and some of their businesses may suffer but that in the long run decoupling will be better for their respective countries.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
pk-protect-ai 3y ago
>> in the long run decoupling will be better for their respective countries Globalization and collaboration making a huge difference in pace of the progress. Segregation and compartmentalization are very bad for everyone in a long run.
- SubiculumCode 3y ago
  probably yes. although that's a bit of an article of faith. in analogy, I wonder how much progress and innovation, and general world progress, has resulted from opening the internet to include Russia, for example. Sometimes including actors that do not conform to certain ethical standards and trust worthy behaviors, leads to spreading infection and danger to the world. Another analogy: Incorporating cancer cells into the body rather than sanctioning their growth, is a sure path to death. this is not a directly equate China to cancer, especially the Chinese people to cancer. That's clearly incorrect. however, I do think it is correct to expect our trading partners to eventually establish trust with each other, on the geopolitical sphere, and if that fails to appear, it makes sense to diversify our strategic resources and partnerships
  - verdverm 3y ago
    > Sometimes including actors that do not conform to certain ethical standards and trust worthy behaviors, leads to spreading infection and danger to the world. The Chinese people are fine. You can see some great projects on GitHub for example. I hear Shenzen is something special. The CCP is the problem, not the Chinese generally

nine_k 3y ago

Success rates may differ. Do you know that AMD makes powerful GPUs that even have a general purpose programming interface called ROCm? Now try to persuade ML practitioners to switch to that ftom NVidia GPUs and CUDA.

Aerroon 3y ago
And what would happen if Nvidia got banned? ROCm would take over. All the development resources would be going into that. That's probably what's going to happen in China.
- nine_k 3y ago
  ROCm likely won't take over, because of its flaws. Eventually, of course, either it or something else, would emerge as a solution. But it will take time. Buying time is what this ban is trying to achieve. Slowing down the rivals.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    I think you overestimate how long such a change would take. If Nvidia was banned tomorrow, I think within 6 months another leader would emerge and be supported by all the big libraries.
    - IshKebab 3y ago
      ROCm is already supported by Pytorch apparently.
      - latchkey 3y ago
        https://pytorch.org/blog/experience-power-pytorch-2.0/ https://pytorch.org/blog/experience-power-pytorch-2.0/
      - londons_explore 3y ago
        My understanding is that while it is theoretically supported, the vast majority of random pytorch projects you find on GitHub will need tweaks before they'll run in ROCm

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

verdverm 3y ago

They don't really need to be pushed, the CCP has set their own goals and agenda https://cset.georgetown.edu/publication/new-chinese-ambitions-for-strategic-emerging-industries-translated/ https://cset.georgetown.edu/publication/new-chinese-ambition... That being said, decoupling increases the chances of a hot war. All this stuff is a lot like the 30s that scored humans a second world war.