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Export Controls on Advanced Computing and Semiconductor Manufacturing Items
- m3kw9 3y agohow does this prevent anything, a sanctioned country can create shell companies in near by countries and resell it back to themselves right?
- omgJustTest 3y agoAvoiding sanctions has penalties for both the companies that enable it and the companies that are sanctioned.
- lardo 3y agoDoes that matter for a disposable shell?
- kimixa 3y agoIt might to the originating company who dealt with said shell company.
- hef19898 3y agoAnd any individuals involved. Unless it is a full blown covert operation run by the intelligence service of a country under embaego. In that case some of the ivvolved people will get decorations and promotions, if successful.
- alphabetting 3y agoDOJ has ramped up it's efforts this year to identify sanction and export control violations with a focus on shell companies https://www.akingump.com/en/insights/alerts/doj-focuses-on-corporate-crime-involving-sanctions-evasion-export-controls-violations-and-similar-economic-crimes https://www.akingump.com/en/insights/alerts/doj-focuses-on-c...
- RandomLensman 3y agoAt a minimum, it increases the costs of accessing the sanctioned goods.
- omgJustTest 3y agoThis is basically the goal of this stuff, not to stop it but to slow it.
- jvanderbot 3y agoThat's not true. At least not in the US. It gives legal over sight so that investigation can occur, and places legal responsibility on builders and buyers such that they'd be culpable if they are connected even accidentally to exporting restricted items. Honestly I think efficient market hypothesis is overreaching here
- godelski 3y agoIsn't this the motto of security in general? "There are no roadblocks, only speed bump." (obviously you can make pretty powerful speed bumps that make you essentially stop but hey, you could try to crack AES256 if you're willing to spend astronomical time)
- krisoft 3y agoYeah, they can. But then that is illegal and the authorities are on the lookout for it. One among the leaked wikileak messages was a communication from the state department to their german counterparts to warn them that a company trying to buy fiber optic gyroscopes from a german company is actually north korea. When my friends were building a micro satelite as a university project in Hungary the local secret service showed up uninvited. They were absolutely friendly, geeked out with them about the project, and asked the group to upgrade their alarm system. Even recommended a brand. They also gave them tips on which countries better to avoided when they travel with the satelite to the launch pad. How did they hear about their project? In short we don’t know. The speculation is that they got a tip that someone is buying space related hardware at this adress from a partner agency and they have been asked to check them out if they are a legit operation or a shell company smuggling parts. Watchers be watching, and there is an extensive aparatus for this.
- bluGill 3y agoAs a creator of something restricted you are responsible for not selling to shell companies. You are required to do due diligence on everyone you sell to, and who they sell to ensure things never get to a shell company. Convince the courts you did your best and you are okay, but you need to be able to show you tried hard to prevent it. This can be tricky. As an American I can sell to Canada but not Cuba. I cannot sell to someone in Canada who resells to Cuba. Someone in Canada is legally required to lie to me if I ask if they will resell to Cuba. Therefore asking Canadians if they resell to Cuba is not enough to show I did due diligence to ensure my stuff doesn't go to Cuba. (My information on US/Cuba relations are 10-15 years out of date, but the example is good even though I'm not sure if it applies anymore)
- jacquesm 3y agoYes, they can. But it's not going to end well: https://www.nu.nl/economie/6285728/drie-jaar-cel-geeist-tegen-ondernemer-die-chips-en-drone-aan-russen-verkocht.html https://www.nu.nl/economie/6285728/drie-jaar-cel-geeist-tege... The USA is at least as good at discovering these tricks as the Dutch are.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y agoThis isn't about stopping them all but Frontier was built with 37,888 GPUs. Have fun sourcing export controlled GPUs at that scale. By the time you do you're two generations behind.
- alphabetting 3y agoauthor of SemiAnalysis on these new rules: https://twitter.com/dylan522p/status/1714289567174730115 https://twitter.com/dylan522p/status/1714289567174730115
- jeffrallen 3y agoOr https://nitter.net/dylan522p/status/1714289567174730115 https://nitter.net/dylan522p/status/1714289567174730115
- Goodroo 3y agoDo they people making these decisions not know that Huawei offers A100 equivalent GPUs and CUDA like framework called Mindspore that has over 2 million developers ? Pushing the Chinese tech giants like Alibaba, Tencent and Baidu to work and grow this platform is the opposite of what these sanctions intend to achieve. What an own goal!
- djoletina 3y agoCompletely agree, tbh both decisions (sanctions and no sanctions) have certain bad implications. But imho sanctions are much more dangerous in the long run for the US foreign policy.
- throwaway4good 3y agoIt is unclear. Perhaps they think that Huawei / smic is constrained on how much they can produce.
- Frost1x 3y agoAs an armchair observer, China and businesses within it seem to have the general upper hand when it comes to production of most of anything. One popular tag line is that they lack true innovative IP type work but I'd say that's highly debatable. When it comes to pretty much any sort of physical production, the US seems at a disadvantage largely due to leadership and ownership direction starting from many decades ago.
- londons_explore 3y agoI disassemble most things I get from china. There is a lot of engineering innovation, but the innovation isn't aimed at the user of the device. The innovation is in ways to make a functional device with fewer manufacturing steps, cheaper. However, one day those engineering minds will divert their attention from making devices cheaper and more efficient towards making the same devices perform better and have more features. At that point, the consumer will see the innovation.
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- garba_dlm 3y ago"this idea is mine, I cannot let you have this idea" the idea fits in a digital format. they're literally building scarcity for the future, right now.
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- VimER 3y ago[dead]
- Aerroon 3y agoDoes China set export controls on things that are basically consumer goods? Because today's A100 is going to be used for playing video games tomorrow.
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- SubiculumCode 3y agoit's good that the US is now using sticks, not just carrots when dealing with China and it's growing geopolitical power. I just hope that we still give thrift to carrots, the stick makes carrots look better. we'd all do better in a more liberal China
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- hunglee2 3y agoImportant to slow down China's innovation rate - the maintenance of the rules based order depends on it
- dmbche 3y agoWhat's the alternative to a "ruled based order"?
- londons_explore 3y agoIt's newspeak.
- dmbche 3y agoThanks
- tomjen3 3y agoThe old order (essentially pre WWII) where countries could do entirely as they wanted.
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- g42gregory 3y agoWith all these restrictions, I begin to wonder: where is this “free market” economy that we so advocate to other countries? I get the need for regulations and restrictions, sure, but at some point, where is free in all of this? Also, do these sanctions even work on large, diversified economies? Eventually, the local substitutes will be developed and, at that point, it will cut off the (large) market for western companies.
- tester756 3y agoWhat? Who says that there's "free market"? it does not exist Free market ends when important stuff starts being affected unless actors arent rational.
- cscurmudgeon 3y agoCurious when did the US gov officially advocate for free markets last?
- hulitu 3y agoTrans pacific partnership ?
- carabiner 3y agoUS has been increasing its central bank interventions, while China has been reducing them. They'll reach an equilibrium soon.
- hulitu 3y agoFree market and democracy ends when it does not serve the interest of US.
- benkillin 3y agoThe Free Market does not exist. It has been shown that the big banks can do whatever they want and if they make bad decisions and take risks that end up costing them billions the government will come and bail them out.