4 ms·

It's incredible to think that museums and private collections are filled with manuscripts and clay tablets all writing in languages that scholars can read, and

It's incredible to think that museums and private collections are filled with manuscripts and clay tablets all writing in languages that scholars can read, and yet, many have never been translated, let alone digitized. More than half a million clay tablets have been found in the Middle East alone so far [1]. And there is serious interest in using LLM's to assist in translation work [2]. [1] Page 9: https://oi.uchicago.edu/sites/default/files/uploads/shared/docs/letters_from_mesopotamia.pdf https://oi.uchicago.edu/sites/default/files/uploads/shared/d... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37915931 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37915931

pbhjpbhj 3y ago
Presumably this problem will be solved as researches develop better tools over the next decade or so, inasmuch as once you can point an app at a clay tablet to see a full translation then owners will seek to do so? Tablet owners would presumably want to find valuable tablets, researchers can duplicate the data from the app; voilà?
sbjs 3y ago
Not everything said is worthy of being heard. True yesterday, today, and forever.
- vodovod 3y ago
  A friend of mine, a historian, says that people only wrote down what was important to them at that time - and that was, more often than not, who owed them money.
- tea-coffee 3y ago
  "Worthy" is a relative word. For historians, translating these tablets is incredibly worthy however mundane it is to the layperson.
- zopa 3y ago
  If we're talking about writing from ancient Sumeria, or another civilization in the distant past, than everything we can recover really is valuable. A text doesn't have to be another Epic of Gilgamesh for it to teach us a lot about societies we know relatively little about.
  - sbjs 3y ago
    You have an implicit assumption that the benefit of learning information always justifies the effort and time spent on learning it. I don't think that's a given or true.
    - notdang 3y ago
      Not everything has to be a benefit.
    - coldtea 3y ago
      For many of us it's not about some cost/benefit analysis, but passion and curiosity.
      - sbjs 3y ago
        That's still following an objective perceived benefit: quenching a passion and satisfying curiosity.
        coldtea 3y ago
        It's following a passion, but hardly an "objectively perceived benefit". Except in the sense that everything is a benefit (including shooting heroin, where the benefit is the high, and so on) where the term becomes meaningless. But even so, it still wouldn't be "objectively perceived". More like "subjectively pursued and felt".
        sbjs 3y ago
        > where the term becomes meaningless Sure, you're welcome to just stop examining thoughts at the surface level and not dig deeper. Other people here seem content with that. I'm not.
    - zopa 3y ago
      Now you’re moving the goal posts. You argued that writings from the past are worthless; I pointed out that they have great historical value. Cost-benefit analysis is beside the point. But we’re both here writing comments in a Hacker News thread so the option value of our time can’t be all that high.
- tomcam 3y ago
  Hard disagree when it comes to any ancient text. For example, many of the oldest cuneiform tablets are simply accounting and receipts. They give a direct insight into what was considered valuable enough to keep track of back then. Likewise, marginalia and even doodles tell us a great deal about what some individuals were thinking about. This is as interesting to me as any form of literature.
- Xerox9213 3y ago
  Even if that is true, how do you know if something is worthy of being read without reading it? Isn’t the ability to write it off as unworthy worth the time to read it?
- altairTF 3y ago
  A sheep count on a 3000 year old clay tablet is cool enough to be heard
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mvcalder 3y ago
One of my favorite things to do in museums is to use Google Translate on artifacts. I find it so exciting to point my phone at a 500 year old vase and read what it says. Here are a couple examples from a trip I tool to the British Museum, it handled the Arabic and Chinese pretty well but the Rosetta Stone's Greek stumped it. [1] Arabic: https://photos.app.goo.gl/jQw3QCdC5PrWQGkr9 https://photos.app.goo.gl/jQw3QCdC5PrWQGkr9 [2] Chinese: https://photos.app.goo.gl/dXhsH7Xq6zpFS6Eq8 https://photos.app.goo.gl/dXhsH7Xq6zpFS6Eq8 [3] Greek: https://photos.app.goo.gl/DBGWCDd8EhzuB2y67 https://photos.app.goo.gl/DBGWCDd8EhzuB2y67
- qingcharles 3y ago
  This is fantastic, thank you. And this is only going to get better over the next couple of years. Totally incredible.
wolverine876 3y ago
That is the history of the Beowulf manuscipt, nearly lost without ever being found: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37918169 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37918169
- TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
  Amazing write-up.

pbhjpbhj 3y ago

Presumably this problem will be solved as researches develop better tools over the next decade or so, inasmuch as once you can point an app at a clay tablet to see a full translation then owners will seek to do so? Tablet owners would presumably want to find valuable tablets, researchers can duplicate the data from the app; voilà?

sbjs 3y ago

Not everything said is worthy of being heard. True yesterday, today, and forever.

vodovod 3y ago
A friend of mine, a historian, says that people only wrote down what was important to them at that time - and that was, more often than not, who owed them money.
tea-coffee 3y ago
"Worthy" is a relative word. For historians, translating these tablets is incredibly worthy however mundane it is to the layperson.
zopa 3y ago
If we're talking about writing from ancient Sumeria, or another civilization in the distant past, than everything we can recover really is valuable. A text doesn't have to be another Epic of Gilgamesh for it to teach us a lot about societies we know relatively little about.
- sbjs 3y ago
  You have an implicit assumption that the benefit of learning information always justifies the effort and time spent on learning it. I don't think that's a given or true.
  - notdang 3y ago
    Not everything has to be a benefit.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    For many of us it's not about some cost/benefit analysis, but passion and curiosity.
    - sbjs 3y ago
      That's still following an objective perceived benefit: quenching a passion and satisfying curiosity.
      - coldtea 3y ago
        It's following a passion, but hardly an "objectively perceived benefit". Except in the sense that everything is a benefit (including shooting heroin, where the benefit is the high, and so on) where the term becomes meaningless. But even so, it still wouldn't be "objectively perceived". More like "subjectively pursued and felt".
        sbjs 3y ago
        > where the term becomes meaningless Sure, you're welcome to just stop examining thoughts at the surface level and not dig deeper. Other people here seem content with that. I'm not.
  - zopa 3y ago
    Now you’re moving the goal posts. You argued that writings from the past are worthless; I pointed out that they have great historical value. Cost-benefit analysis is beside the point. But we’re both here writing comments in a Hacker News thread so the option value of our time can’t be all that high.
tomcam 3y ago
Hard disagree when it comes to any ancient text. For example, many of the oldest cuneiform tablets are simply accounting and receipts. They give a direct insight into what was considered valuable enough to keep track of back then. Likewise, marginalia and even doodles tell us a great deal about what some individuals were thinking about. This is as interesting to me as any form of literature.
Xerox9213 3y ago
Even if that is true, how do you know if something is worthy of being read without reading it? Isn’t the ability to write it off as unworthy worth the time to read it?
altairTF 3y ago
A sheep count on a 3000 year old clay tablet is cool enough to be heard

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

mvcalder 3y ago

One of my favorite things to do in museums is to use Google Translate on artifacts. I find it so exciting to point my phone at a 500 year old vase and read what it says. Here are a couple examples from a trip I tool to the British Museum, it handled the Arabic and Chinese pretty well but the Rosetta Stone's Greek stumped it. [1] Arabic: https://photos.app.goo.gl/jQw3QCdC5PrWQGkr9 https://photos.app.goo.gl/jQw3QCdC5PrWQGkr9 [2] Chinese: https://photos.app.goo.gl/dXhsH7Xq6zpFS6Eq8 https://photos.app.goo.gl/dXhsH7Xq6zpFS6Eq8 [3] Greek: https://photos.app.goo.gl/DBGWCDd8EhzuB2y67 https://photos.app.goo.gl/DBGWCDd8EhzuB2y67

qingcharles 3y ago
This is fantastic, thank you. And this is only going to get better over the next couple of years. Totally incredible.

wolverine876 3y ago

That is the history of the Beowulf manuscipt, nearly lost without ever being found: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37918169 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37918169

TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
Amazing write-up.