6 ms·

It feels like Elon's companies are being unfairly targeted by the current bureaucracy. Remember the DOJ's bizarre suite alleging the company engaged in employm

by hersko 3y ago

It feels like Elon's companies are being unfairly targeted by the current bureaucracy. Remember the DOJ's bizarre suite alleging the company engaged in employment discrimination against non-US citizens. https://nypost.com/2023/09/20/biden-doj-targeting-of-elon-musk-is-intimidation-pure-and-simple/ https://nypost.com/2023/09/20/biden-doj-targeting-of-elon-mu...

edgyquant 3y ago
They are. It’s incredibly good PR with a left leaning base to attack Musk as he’s been built up over the last few years as one of the big bad guys.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > incredibly good PR with a left leaning base to attack Musk The FAA? The media had a field day with the pad damage. But there were chunks of concrete lofted for miles from the launch site. Nobody is targeting Musk from the FAA.
- kiba 3y ago
  People had a lot of reasons to dislike Elon Musk, much of it is self inflicted, but this has little to do with slowness of the FAA.
threeseed 3y ago
So the DOJ press release [1] states that SpaceX was discriminating against asylees and refugees which is in breach of the Immigration and Nationality Act. Not sure why you think it is unfair for the US government to be enforcing the law. Especially when these are people who are in the US legally and are more than likely on a pathway to US citizenship. Would anyone here seriously want a situation where tech companies would only hire US citizens and not those on relevant work visas ? This would decimate the whole industry. [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-spacex-discriminating-against-asylees-and-refugees-hiring https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-space...
- fastball 3y ago
  Can refugees get security clearance? Does Northrop Grumman hire refugees and asylees? Does Lockheed Martin?
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Securoty clearance, after getting a visa and work permit? Sure, why not? And not all jobs at those companies require clearance, far from it actually.
    - mlyle 3y ago
      > Securoty clearance, after getting a visa and work permit? Sure, why not? Clearance requires US citizenship. > And not all jobs at those companies require clearance, far from it actually. This is the more important point.
      - hef19898 3y ago
        See, clearance in Europe doesn't require citizenship. It does make it a lot easier so.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Clearance requires US citizenship "...if a non-U.S. citizen requires access to U.S. classified information and meets the requirements of the 32 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) 117.10(k), a Limited Access Authorization (LAA) no higher than the Secret level may be issued." https://www.dcsa.mil/Industrial-Security/International-Programs/Security-Assurances-for-Personnel-Facilities/ https://www.dcsa.mil/Industrial-Security/International-Progr...
        mlyle 3y ago
        > ... but the LAA is not a national security eligibility. Access to classified will be limited to a specific program or project and will be cancelled upon the completion of the program or project for which it was approved... I mean, I originally thought about lengthening my answer to point out that there are limited ways to allow people of extraordinary necessity to work on classified projects, but I figured it wasn't necessary.
InitialLastName 3y ago
Alternately, is it possible that he runs companies in industries that are subject to heavy regulation, is ideologically opposed to regulation (to the point that his companies consistently shirk regulatory requirements at every opportunity), and owns his own giant propaganda broadcast network?
- ncr100 3y ago
  And he as a billionaire lives in a tax favorable nation for him, where federal agencies don't receive proper funding in part due to low taxes on people with wealth like him, resulting in lower funding for legally required regulation of his own industries?
  - edgyquant 3y ago
    > where federal agencies don't receive proper funding in part due to low taxes on people with wealth like him Hilarious considering how much tax revenue the US Government has.
    - Zigurd 3y ago
      Name checks out
    - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
      Irrelevant. However much revenue it has, its expenses are higher. People want it to do more than they are willing to pay for. So, here's Musk, proposing that they government do even more - hire more people. There are three options: Find something else to cut, raise more revenue, or run a larger deficit. Musk's lack of taxes is directly relevant.
      - Gud 3y ago
        Wouldn't running the nations industry more efficiently, in this case less waiting time for the bureaucracy, increase the nations revenue? It seems to me SpaceX has the potential to be a trillion dollar company.
kiba 3y ago
FAA's slowness is different than other part of the government targeting spacex for separate issues.
MajimasEyepatch 3y ago
Ah yes, the Murdoch-owned New York Post. Definitely an objective source for information about the Biden administration. There's nothing bizarre about the DOJ prosecuting someone who has no filter and constantly brags about his disdain for the law. In fact, it makes you quite an obvious target for prosecutors. See also: Trump, Donald J.
gregwebs 3y ago
It's quite possible that the Biden administration may have it out for him because he is a vocal critic and isn't letting them suppress speech on Twitter they way they used to. However, if you read (or listen in my case) to his recently released biography (it presents both his flaws and greatness), you will see plenty of examples of intentionally flouting regulations. This is due to a combination of ignorance/impulsiveness (e.g. the $420/share fiasco), a maniacal sense of urgency, reality distortion (e.g. Full self driving that is not full self driving), and product perfectionism (e.g not including a safety warning on the back of the passenger side mirror because he didn't like how it looked). It's also ingrained in his way of working to question all requirements until it is proved that they are needed- this would also predispose one towards flouting regulation until enforcement. All of these traits have helped to make him highly successful, but they all come bundled with a dark side that makes for an inevitable clash with regulators.
- myko 3y ago
  > he is a vocal critic and isn't letting them suppress speech on Twitter they way they used to. This never happened.
myko 3y ago
> the DOJ's bizarre suite alleging the company engaged in employment discrimination against non-US citizens This wasn't bizarre and was appropriate. The company updated their recruitment policies to comply.

by hersko 3y ago

edgyquant 3y ago

They are. It’s incredibly good PR with a left leaning base to attack Musk as he’s been built up over the last few years as one of the big bad guys.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> incredibly good PR with a left leaning base to attack Musk The FAA? The media had a field day with the pad damage. But there were chunks of concrete lofted for miles from the launch site. Nobody is targeting Musk from the FAA.
kiba 3y ago
People had a lot of reasons to dislike Elon Musk, much of it is self inflicted, but this has little to do with slowness of the FAA.

threeseed 3y ago

So the DOJ press release [1] states that SpaceX was discriminating against asylees and refugees which is in breach of the Immigration and Nationality Act. Not sure why you think it is unfair for the US government to be enforcing the law. Especially when these are people who are in the US legally and are more than likely on a pathway to US citizenship. Would anyone here seriously want a situation where tech companies would only hire US citizens and not those on relevant work visas ? This would decimate the whole industry. [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-spacex-discriminating-against-asylees-and-refugees-hiring https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-space...

fastball 3y ago
Can refugees get security clearance? Does Northrop Grumman hire refugees and asylees? Does Lockheed Martin?
- hef19898 3y ago
  Securoty clearance, after getting a visa and work permit? Sure, why not? And not all jobs at those companies require clearance, far from it actually.
  - mlyle 3y ago
    > Securoty clearance, after getting a visa and work permit? Sure, why not? Clearance requires US citizenship. > And not all jobs at those companies require clearance, far from it actually. This is the more important point.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      See, clearance in Europe doesn't require citizenship. It does make it a lot easier so.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > Clearance requires US citizenship "...if a non-U.S. citizen requires access to U.S. classified information and meets the requirements of the 32 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) 117.10(k), a Limited Access Authorization (LAA) no higher than the Secret level may be issued." https://www.dcsa.mil/Industrial-Security/International-Programs/Security-Assurances-for-Personnel-Facilities/ https://www.dcsa.mil/Industrial-Security/International-Progr...
      - mlyle 3y ago
        > ... but the LAA is not a national security eligibility. Access to classified will be limited to a specific program or project and will be cancelled upon the completion of the program or project for which it was approved... I mean, I originally thought about lengthening my answer to point out that there are limited ways to allow people of extraordinary necessity to work on classified projects, but I figured it wasn't necessary.

InitialLastName 3y ago

Alternately, is it possible that he runs companies in industries that are subject to heavy regulation, is ideologically opposed to regulation (to the point that his companies consistently shirk regulatory requirements at every opportunity), and owns his own giant propaganda broadcast network?

ncr100 3y ago
And he as a billionaire lives in a tax favorable nation for him, where federal agencies don't receive proper funding in part due to low taxes on people with wealth like him, resulting in lower funding for legally required regulation of his own industries?
- edgyquant 3y ago
  > where federal agencies don't receive proper funding in part due to low taxes on people with wealth like him Hilarious considering how much tax revenue the US Government has.
  - Zigurd 3y ago
    Name checks out
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    Irrelevant. However much revenue it has, its expenses are higher. People want it to do more than they are willing to pay for. So, here's Musk, proposing that they government do even more - hire more people. There are three options: Find something else to cut, raise more revenue, or run a larger deficit. Musk's lack of taxes is directly relevant.
    - Gud 3y ago
      Wouldn't running the nations industry more efficiently, in this case less waiting time for the bureaucracy, increase the nations revenue? It seems to me SpaceX has the potential to be a trillion dollar company.

kiba 3y ago

FAA's slowness is different than other part of the government targeting spacex for separate issues.

MajimasEyepatch 3y ago

Ah yes, the Murdoch-owned New York Post. Definitely an objective source for information about the Biden administration. There's nothing bizarre about the DOJ prosecuting someone who has no filter and constantly brags about his disdain for the law. In fact, it makes you quite an obvious target for prosecutors. See also: Trump, Donald J.

gregwebs 3y ago

It's quite possible that the Biden administration may have it out for him because he is a vocal critic and isn't letting them suppress speech on Twitter they way they used to. However, if you read (or listen in my case) to his recently released biography (it presents both his flaws and greatness), you will see plenty of examples of intentionally flouting regulations. This is due to a combination of ignorance/impulsiveness (e.g. the $420/share fiasco), a maniacal sense of urgency, reality distortion (e.g. Full self driving that is not full self driving), and product perfectionism (e.g not including a safety warning on the back of the passenger side mirror because he didn't like how it looked). It's also ingrained in his way of working to question all requirements until it is proved that they are needed- this would also predispose one towards flouting regulation until enforcement. All of these traits have helped to make him highly successful, but they all come bundled with a dark side that makes for an inevitable clash with regulators.

myko 3y ago
> he is a vocal critic and isn't letting them suppress speech on Twitter they way they used to. This never happened.

myko 3y ago

> the DOJ's bizarre suite alleging the company engaged in employment discrimination against non-US citizens This wasn't bizarre and was appropriate. The company updated their recruitment policies to comply.