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It's great that you quickly notify candidates if they aren't a fit! Wish more people did that. But.... >Bring a side project, show us how it works. What do y

It's great that you quickly notify candidates if they aren't a fit! Wish more people did that. But.... >Bring a side project, show us how it works. What do you do if someone doesn't have a side project (or want their side project to be reviewed by someone they don't know)? Some people code to live, not live to code.

JohnFen 3y ago
I'm not defending the practice of requiring that a side project be presented. I think that's over the top and wouldn't do it -- however, if a candidate volunteers one, that does give a huge advantage to that candidate. > Some people code to live, not live to code. Totally fair. But there are lots of companies who prefer people who code because they love coding over those that do it just for the paycheck, and that's also totally fair.
- el_benhameen 3y ago
  I don’t think this was intentional, but you missed the third category: people who love to write code but only have time to do it for the paycheck.
  - fnimick 3y ago
    Oh, I think it is very intentional, and the whole point is to not say it out loud. If you don't have time to code for "love", you won't have time to jump at unreasonable requests and pull tons of crunch time overtime either. Given the choice, companies would love to hire someone with no responsibilities outside of work, this is just a legal way of filtering out parents, people with dependents etc
    - signatoremo 3y ago
      > If you don't have time to code for "love", you won't have time to jump at unreasonable requests and pull tons of crunch time overtime either. As opposed to doing leetcode? when you also have to spend time outside of work to practice and memorize them? If you are looking for a new job, you have to invest time and effort. One way or another. Unless you are a known quality. Can you suggest a fair way to evaluate a candidate?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- bcrosby95 3y ago
  I love to code, hell, I do it almost 40 hours per week. And I get paid to do it, isn't that cool? Sometimes a side project catches my eye. But I have more than a singular interest. And kids. And to be honest, when a side project catches my eye, work suffers a bit because those tiny moments I have to fill with thoughts are spent on my side projects rather than work projects.
- ziddoap 3y ago
  >Some people code to live, not live to code. That doesn't mean not loving coding. It means that you might have other hobbies that you want to spend time on, or other obligations you have to spend time on, etc. I like what I do at my job. I would even go as far to say as I love it. I also don't do it for an extra 20 hours a week (beyond the 40 hours I already do for work) because I have other things I love to do too (sometimes more!); quality time with friends, family, my other hobbies, etc.
shrimp_emoji 3y ago
Then those people get ranked lower (for good reason).
allo37 3y ago
I can sympathize, but keep in mind most professions expect you to commit to a certain number of hours of continuing education. Often you can convince your employer to let you do this during work hours (or even pay for it!), but not always.
- ziddoap 3y ago
  Continuing education credits is pretty far from "bring in a hobby project for code review for this interview". Is there even a CE credit available for coding up a hobby project (and who from)? Completion of a course, attending a lecture, attending a lunch & learn, etc. are the CE credits I am familiar with (spanning a few different professional bodies).
  - allo37 3y ago
    Sometimes you can declare "self-learning", depending on the order. But anyways, that's not really my point: My point is just that in professions it's not uncommon to be expected to perform some kind of extracurricular activities related to your job. Often software "engineers" aren't members of a professional order, but I'd argue that the idea still applies. Tbh learning by working on a hobby project is way more appealing to me than watching some PowerPoint presentation...
    - ziddoap 3y ago
      >My point is just that in professions it's not uncommon to be expected to perform some kind of extracurricular activities related to your job. If my employer _expects_ me to do something related to my job, I get paid for it. I really wish we'd all stop normalizing working for free.
      - physPop 3y ago
        I don’t understand your view. How do you improve your skill in the craft ? Or learn new technologies ? You wait for your employer to tell you to learn something ? That’s a sure fire way to always be behind the curve.

JohnFen 3y ago

I'm not defending the practice of requiring that a side project be presented. I think that's over the top and wouldn't do it -- however, if a candidate volunteers one, that does give a huge advantage to that candidate. > Some people code to live, not live to code. Totally fair. But there are lots of companies who prefer people who code because they love coding over those that do it just for the paycheck, and that's also totally fair.

el_benhameen 3y ago
I don’t think this was intentional, but you missed the third category: people who love to write code but only have time to do it for the paycheck.
- fnimick 3y ago
  Oh, I think it is very intentional, and the whole point is to not say it out loud. If you don't have time to code for "love", you won't have time to jump at unreasonable requests and pull tons of crunch time overtime either. Given the choice, companies would love to hire someone with no responsibilities outside of work, this is just a legal way of filtering out parents, people with dependents etc
  - signatoremo 3y ago
    > If you don't have time to code for "love", you won't have time to jump at unreasonable requests and pull tons of crunch time overtime either. As opposed to doing leetcode? when you also have to spend time outside of work to practice and memorize them? If you are looking for a new job, you have to invest time and effort. One way or another. Unless you are a known quality. Can you suggest a fair way to evaluate a candidate?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bcrosby95 3y ago
I love to code, hell, I do it almost 40 hours per week. And I get paid to do it, isn't that cool? Sometimes a side project catches my eye. But I have more than a singular interest. And kids. And to be honest, when a side project catches my eye, work suffers a bit because those tiny moments I have to fill with thoughts are spent on my side projects rather than work projects.
ziddoap 3y ago
>Some people code to live, not live to code. That doesn't mean not loving coding. It means that you might have other hobbies that you want to spend time on, or other obligations you have to spend time on, etc. I like what I do at my job. I would even go as far to say as I love it. I also don't do it for an extra 20 hours a week (beyond the 40 hours I already do for work) because I have other things I love to do too (sometimes more!); quality time with friends, family, my other hobbies, etc.

shrimp_emoji 3y ago

Then those people get ranked lower (for good reason).

allo37 3y ago

I can sympathize, but keep in mind most professions expect you to commit to a certain number of hours of continuing education. Often you can convince your employer to let you do this during work hours (or even pay for it!), but not always.

ziddoap 3y ago
Continuing education credits is pretty far from "bring in a hobby project for code review for this interview". Is there even a CE credit available for coding up a hobby project (and who from)? Completion of a course, attending a lecture, attending a lunch & learn, etc. are the CE credits I am familiar with (spanning a few different professional bodies).
- allo37 3y ago
  Sometimes you can declare "self-learning", depending on the order. But anyways, that's not really my point: My point is just that in professions it's not uncommon to be expected to perform some kind of extracurricular activities related to your job. Often software "engineers" aren't members of a professional order, but I'd argue that the idea still applies. Tbh learning by working on a hobby project is way more appealing to me than watching some PowerPoint presentation...
  - ziddoap 3y ago
    >My point is just that in professions it's not uncommon to be expected to perform some kind of extracurricular activities related to your job. If my employer _expects_ me to do something related to my job, I get paid for it. I really wish we'd all stop normalizing working for free.
    - physPop 3y ago
      I don’t understand your view. How do you improve your skill in the craft ? Or learn new technologies ? You wait for your employer to tell you to learn something ? That’s a sure fire way to always be behind the curve.