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If only speed limits were designed so that breaking them always equates "reckless driving", and not sometimes (often, here) "driving at a completely normal spee

If only speed limits were designed so that breaking them always equates "reckless driving", and not sometimes (often, here) "driving at a completely normal speed considering the surrounding environment". inb4 pitchfork raising amongst the anti-car rabble

_dain_ 3y ago
>inb4 pitchfork raising amongst the anti-car rabble I don't know why you think anti-car people would raise pitchforks at that. In fact this was my criticism of the proposal when I lived in Wales; there seemed to be little attempt to alter the street environments to match the lower limits. I want effective 20 mph zones and that can't happen just by changing a few speed limit signs. My prediction was that it would backfire: motorists behaviours wouldn't change, so the speed limits would be flouted even more than they are now. Councils wouldn't enforce it consistently, giving credence to the view that it's simply a revenue-generating scheme and/or a way for police to punish people arbitrarily. This is already the case for parking offenses; Cardiff motorists can park on double-yellows with almost complete impunity. Then, populist backlash, law gets repealed, making it even harder to get support for real street safety measures in the future.
- a-french-anon 3y ago
  Because for some of them, the right speed limit is 0 kmh/mph aka "total car death".
  - _dain_ 3y ago
    Well I'm sure that's the case for some of them but you shouldn't let jokers and extremists poison your opinion of what is in reality a quite sensible policy.
sebstefan 3y ago
Anti-car people are also in favor of narrowing roads and making them physically harder to navigate to force drivers to respect the speed limit >a-french-anon 20 miles per hour is 32km/h, 2 above the french residential limit of 30km/h
crote 3y ago
I completely agree. You can't enforce a speed limit by simply placing a speed sign and hoping everyone is going to magically follow them. More cops or speed cameras isn't going to work either. My city is currently working on a plan to lower the speed limit from 50kmh to 30kmh (30 mph to 18 mph). The entire thing is a multi-year program because it essentially means redesigning those roads from scratch. A road which has been designed for its speed limit doesn't even need a speed sign - the driver will naturally be driving at that speed already because anything faster will feel unsafe to the driver.
- alexfoo 3y ago
  > You can't enforce a speed limit by simply placing a speed sign and hoping everyone is going to magically follow them. It's not flawless but sticking up signs has a reasonable effect. I'd say at least 50% of the people who drive on the local 20mph roads near me abide by the speed limit (that has not active enforcement) and this prevents quite a few others from speeding. (I agree on the road design point though...)
- sebstefan 3y ago
  >More cops or speed cameras isn't going to work either. That's just wishful thinking. You probably wished they didn't so you could make that point, but they 100% work :) They have the benefit of not slowing down emergency vehicles too!
- DrReachAround 3y ago
  That sounds absolutely miserable. You can do 18 by taking your foot off the brake.
  - CalRobert 3y ago
    What kind of car do you drive?
sealeck 3y ago
Redesigning entire streets is tricky; setting lower speed limits is easier. If you look at the data for speed limits vs deaths they show pretty convincingly that what drivers think are "completely normal speeds" are actually "reckless driving".

_dain_ 3y ago

>inb4 pitchfork raising amongst the anti-car rabble I don't know why you think anti-car people would raise pitchforks at that. In fact this was my criticism of the proposal when I lived in Wales; there seemed to be little attempt to alter the street environments to match the lower limits. I want effective 20 mph zones and that can't happen just by changing a few speed limit signs. My prediction was that it would backfire: motorists behaviours wouldn't change, so the speed limits would be flouted even more than they are now. Councils wouldn't enforce it consistently, giving credence to the view that it's simply a revenue-generating scheme and/or a way for police to punish people arbitrarily. This is already the case for parking offenses; Cardiff motorists can park on double-yellows with almost complete impunity. Then, populist backlash, law gets repealed, making it even harder to get support for real street safety measures in the future.

a-french-anon 3y ago
Because for some of them, the right speed limit is 0 kmh/mph aka "total car death".
- _dain_ 3y ago
  Well I'm sure that's the case for some of them but you shouldn't let jokers and extremists poison your opinion of what is in reality a quite sensible policy.

sebstefan 3y ago

Anti-car people are also in favor of narrowing roads and making them physically harder to navigate to force drivers to respect the speed limit >a-french-anon 20 miles per hour is 32km/h, 2 above the french residential limit of 30km/h

crote 3y ago

I completely agree. You can't enforce a speed limit by simply placing a speed sign and hoping everyone is going to magically follow them. More cops or speed cameras isn't going to work either. My city is currently working on a plan to lower the speed limit from 50kmh to 30kmh (30 mph to 18 mph). The entire thing is a multi-year program because it essentially means redesigning those roads from scratch. A road which has been designed for its speed limit doesn't even need a speed sign - the driver will naturally be driving at that speed already because anything faster will feel unsafe to the driver.

alexfoo 3y ago
> You can't enforce a speed limit by simply placing a speed sign and hoping everyone is going to magically follow them. It's not flawless but sticking up signs has a reasonable effect. I'd say at least 50% of the people who drive on the local 20mph roads near me abide by the speed limit (that has not active enforcement) and this prevents quite a few others from speeding. (I agree on the road design point though...)
sebstefan 3y ago
>More cops or speed cameras isn't going to work either. That's just wishful thinking. You probably wished they didn't so you could make that point, but they 100% work :) They have the benefit of not slowing down emergency vehicles too!
DrReachAround 3y ago
That sounds absolutely miserable. You can do 18 by taking your foot off the brake.
- CalRobert 3y ago
  What kind of car do you drive?

sealeck 3y ago

Redesigning entire streets is tricky; setting lower speed limits is easier. If you look at the data for speed limits vs deaths they show pretty convincingly that what drivers think are "completely normal speeds" are actually "reckless driving".