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> But also, assessment is a really tricky proposition. If anything it seems like it would be much easier than the current property tax assessment scheme.

HDThoreaun 3y ago
Well no, because people sell entire houses so you can use that to anchor valuations. LVT is only taxing part of the purchase, much harder to disentangle.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Not at all, and any property assessor will tell you this (e.g. property assessments usually already separate land vs improvements). Nearly all houses are insured, so it's easy to calculate land value as sales price - insured value, basically because insurance only covers the cost of the house. Plus, nearly all locales either have empty lots that are sold, or if there is no more room have houses that are sold as teardowns, and in either case that gives you an unambiguous land value.
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    The thing about land is that there are a million reasons why one lot might be worth a different amount than one next door. A single lot selling in a neighborhood tells you little about the rest of the land prices in the area because of that. Maybe that lot is on a hill or next to a busy street or everyone knows the neighbor is a giant asshole. All these things change the price on a micro level and are impossible to disentangle.
jjav 3y ago
> If anything it seems like it would be much easier than the current property tax assessment scheme. Explain how it can be easier? If valuation is based on sale price of the property or nearby comparable properties, those are objective numbers. A sale actually happened, at that price. So it was worth that much to someone. No room for argument. A LVT gives power to the government to unilaterally declare that in some alternate universe, your plot of land might be worth a lot more, so they'll just go right ahead and tax you on that speculative amount in the absence of any evidence. That sounds very open to abuse.
- shawabawa3 3y ago
  Are empty plots not bought and sold? Are properties not bought and sold for demolition and redevelopment? Can you not compare the sale price of similar properties with similar plots in different locations to get estimates for the land value? What about using insurance estimates for rebuilding costs? If my house is insured for a rebuilding cost of $500,000 and I bought it for $1,500,000, isn't $1,000,000 a reasonable estimate of the land value? > A LVT gives power to the government to unilaterally declare that in some alternate universe, your plot of land might be worth a lot more Only if the law for some bizarre reason gives unilateral power to the government to declare the land value for plots arbitrarily You could say exactly the same thing about property taxes currently. Why could the government not unilaterally declare your property is worth 10x? Because that's not how it works
  - jjav 3y ago
    > You could say exactly the same thing about property taxes currently. Why could the government not unilaterally declare your property is worth 10x? Because that's not how it works Right, that's not how it works when the tax is based on the sale prices of the property itself and/or comparable nearby properties. Those are market clearing prices, so it demonstrates actual people were actually willing to pay that price, so it is realistic. The county can't say your property is worth 10x overnight, because there is proof that it is not, in the form of the public records of comparable sales nearby in the last few months. But with LVT the claim is that the tax should be based on a theoretical value of what it might be worth if someone build something else there, like a high rise apartment tower. It is speculative, since the building doesn't exist. That's completely unfair.

HDThoreaun 3y ago

Well no, because people sell entire houses so you can use that to anchor valuations. LVT is only taxing part of the purchase, much harder to disentangle.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Not at all, and any property assessor will tell you this (e.g. property assessments usually already separate land vs improvements). Nearly all houses are insured, so it's easy to calculate land value as sales price - insured value, basically because insurance only covers the cost of the house. Plus, nearly all locales either have empty lots that are sold, or if there is no more room have houses that are sold as teardowns, and in either case that gives you an unambiguous land value.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  The thing about land is that there are a million reasons why one lot might be worth a different amount than one next door. A single lot selling in a neighborhood tells you little about the rest of the land prices in the area because of that. Maybe that lot is on a hill or next to a busy street or everyone knows the neighbor is a giant asshole. All these things change the price on a micro level and are impossible to disentangle.

jjav 3y ago

> If anything it seems like it would be much easier than the current property tax assessment scheme. Explain how it can be easier? If valuation is based on sale price of the property or nearby comparable properties, those are objective numbers. A sale actually happened, at that price. So it was worth that much to someone. No room for argument. A LVT gives power to the government to unilaterally declare that in some alternate universe, your plot of land might be worth a lot more, so they'll just go right ahead and tax you on that speculative amount in the absence of any evidence. That sounds very open to abuse.

shawabawa3 3y ago
Are empty plots not bought and sold? Are properties not bought and sold for demolition and redevelopment? Can you not compare the sale price of similar properties with similar plots in different locations to get estimates for the land value? What about using insurance estimates for rebuilding costs? If my house is insured for a rebuilding cost of $500,000 and I bought it for $1,500,000, isn't $1,000,000 a reasonable estimate of the land value? > A LVT gives power to the government to unilaterally declare that in some alternate universe, your plot of land might be worth a lot more Only if the law for some bizarre reason gives unilateral power to the government to declare the land value for plots arbitrarily You could say exactly the same thing about property taxes currently. Why could the government not unilaterally declare your property is worth 10x? Because that's not how it works
- jjav 3y ago
  > You could say exactly the same thing about property taxes currently. Why could the government not unilaterally declare your property is worth 10x? Because that's not how it works Right, that's not how it works when the tax is based on the sale prices of the property itself and/or comparable nearby properties. Those are market clearing prices, so it demonstrates actual people were actually willing to pay that price, so it is realistic. The county can't say your property is worth 10x overnight, because there is proof that it is not, in the form of the public records of comparable sales nearby in the last few months. But with LVT the claim is that the tax should be based on a theoretical value of what it might be worth if someone build something else there, like a high rise apartment tower. It is speculative, since the building doesn't exist. That's completely unfair.