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So conflicted about this guy. Dungeon Keeper is right up there in my all-time best games. Black & White was great, but there was always something just not qui

So conflicted about this guy. Dungeon Keeper is right up there in my all-time best games. Black & White was great, but there was always something just not quite right (or not quite complete) with it. Really enjoyed the Fable games, but they still didn't live up to the hype. And then there's the Godus saga, which I played a lot but ultimately gave up on. It felt like backing a particularly doomed Kickstarter for a game I really wanted to play. He talks the talk, and then stumbles the walk. And I'm a total sucker for his vision of what a game should be. But almost always disappointed by the execution (Dungeon Keeper was the exception - almost perfect execution on that). It's like he has a vision of a gaming paradise that humans can't actually build. But he never seems to acknowledge the amount of pain that his failure to build causes. And he never seems to learn to under-promise and over-deliver. Every new game is going to be this amazing work of art, and then what emerges from the development process is like a poor shadow of what he describes. I'm not falling for it this time. And I don't believe a word of "this is my last game, so I want it to be amazing".

Pungsnigel 3y ago
Fable 1 is among the best games ever in my opinion. Still holds up decent as well. Insanely good atmosphere.
- Aeolun 3y ago
  I mean, it’s pretty good, but I wouldn’t describe it as the best game ever. It did have a lot of at the time revolutionary ideas though.
- KeplerBoy 3y ago
  True. And I foolishly have some hopes for the next Fable, but it's been 20 years and I'm not even the targeted audience anymore. Who else gets a bit emotional knowing their personal gaming enjoyment peaked 20 years ago in front of a CRT?
  - geoah 3y ago
    Sigh. I miss those stupid point and click adventure games so much. I hoped for a closure to the monkey island series for so long. And after getting it I’m full of regret. Nothing they did would have made me happy. Nostalgia is what it is.
- avereveard 3y ago
  Fable is a very well put together game and I spent hours with it and had a lot of fun. That said, a cursory comparison of the game features with the initial press releases from molineaux shows the kind of disconnect that exists from his ideas to his executions. It's not bad to have a daydreamer setting the overall project vision, but anything he say at any time of the development process is to be treated just like that, as an internal vision document unrelated to the final product.
mattlondon 3y ago
From the article: > Project MOAT isn't his final game, Molyneux assured.
caslon 3y ago
> I really miss those days of being out, exploring publicly what a game is about. In the past that has led me into all sorts of trouble – as you develop a game, you try things out, and when you try things out, some things work and some things don’t. Now, in the old days, I used to talk about that process without really making it clear that some features may appear and then disappear. > Famously in Fable 1, I think I mentioned that if you planted an acorn, an oak tree would grow, but that feature was dropped from the original Fable, and I think that was the start of me getting in trouble. I’m deeply sorry if I offended or upset anybody by my often overenthusiastic and ill thought out press. The great thing about this blog is it’s not trying to do anything but explain the process (you’re probably going to see me get ridiculously exicted). https://developmolyneux.blog/ https://developmolyneux.blog/ > And I should make a note here that normally when I’m designing a game, and this is just me, it’s actually a terrible idea, so if anyone is reading this and thinking, right, this is how to design a game, don’t do this! I think, because of my dyslexia, I prefer not to write things down. I mean, you have to write things down when you’re communicating to a team, but in the early days, I think once I’ve written something down, I feel subconsciously that that’s it. It’s written in stone, there’s no more changing it. If you keep it inside your mind and keep mulling it over and thinking about it and wondering about it, and being very curious about how this idea evolves, then it’s much more likely to be fluid. And being fluid allows me to play around a lot with an idea. > Now the downside is you are depending on yourself to remember all that shit. Because it’s so easy to get excited about something, especially when under the influence of a mood enhancer. It’s very easy to forget about. > So I’m not saying that this game is going to be my last game, but I am saying that time is running out and that is incredibly sad, but that makes this game, in my mind, very, very meaningful. I feel it should be something which represents parts of my career and the many games I’ve been lucky to work on.
- marcus_holmes 3y ago
  OK, fair point, he acknowledges the pain caused. But then goes and does the exact same thing over again.
  - Aeolun 3y ago
    I mean, it’s also our fault for believing it again :)
thomasz 3y ago
I never understood the extreme hate. "Pain"? We’re talking about video games, for Christ’s sake.
Lacerda69 3y ago
Black & White was amazing. Granted I was a kid back then so maybe impressionable, but few games have made me feel that intensely about some pixel people. I think he hit the spot with that one- even though I agree that the vision was much more grandiose...
- dale_glass 3y ago
  Black & White is good for the first level, and steadily goes downhill, as I recall. There's a level where you're constantly under attack. There's a level where you lose your creature, which is the game's main perk. And there's a level where it's impossible to progress without using brutal and extremely tedious means. And there's only 5 levels, so that's most of the game for you. It's like somebody said "Hey, we got the fun stuff out of the way, now let's have every kind of annoying mission a game can have, one after another".
  - tiltowait 3y ago
    While Land 3 arguably encourages a brutal assault, it's possible (as I recall) to beat peacefully—just harder. I thought the game's first three lands were great, though you're right that the first area is arguably the best. I can see what they were going for with land 4, and it could have been very rewarding, but I never felt the catharsis by breaking the curses that was probably intended. I did not like land 5, though.
_the_inflator 3y ago
> "And I don't believe a word of "this is my last game, so I want it to be amazing"." This and variations of "represent his life's work" are catchphrases he always uses to announce his next game. Sense of urgency ("last"), drama ("my life"). Just another phrase for "most bestes game I ever did!". Marketing...
highwaylights 3y ago
"Black & White was great, but there was always something just not quite right (or not quite complete) with it." That's how you end up getting us all extinctified by legions of Go playing deathbots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtzwiwkfUh0&t=4s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtzwiwkfUh0&t=4s
peterashford 3y ago
Also: Populous, Syndicate, The Movies. He made many of the best games of all time. Sure, he had some very public failures, but he had more ground breaking successes than almost anyone else

Pungsnigel 3y ago

Fable 1 is among the best games ever in my opinion. Still holds up decent as well. Insanely good atmosphere.

Aeolun 3y ago
I mean, it’s pretty good, but I wouldn’t describe it as the best game ever. It did have a lot of at the time revolutionary ideas though.
KeplerBoy 3y ago
True. And I foolishly have some hopes for the next Fable, but it's been 20 years and I'm not even the targeted audience anymore. Who else gets a bit emotional knowing their personal gaming enjoyment peaked 20 years ago in front of a CRT?
- geoah 3y ago
  Sigh. I miss those stupid point and click adventure games so much. I hoped for a closure to the monkey island series for so long. And after getting it I’m full of regret. Nothing they did would have made me happy. Nostalgia is what it is.
avereveard 3y ago
Fable is a very well put together game and I spent hours with it and had a lot of fun. That said, a cursory comparison of the game features with the initial press releases from molineaux shows the kind of disconnect that exists from his ideas to his executions. It's not bad to have a daydreamer setting the overall project vision, but anything he say at any time of the development process is to be treated just like that, as an internal vision document unrelated to the final product.

mattlondon 3y ago

From the article: > Project MOAT isn't his final game, Molyneux assured.

caslon 3y ago

> I really miss those days of being out, exploring publicly what a game is about. In the past that has led me into all sorts of trouble – as you develop a game, you try things out, and when you try things out, some things work and some things don’t. Now, in the old days, I used to talk about that process without really making it clear that some features may appear and then disappear. > Famously in Fable 1, I think I mentioned that if you planted an acorn, an oak tree would grow, but that feature was dropped from the original Fable, and I think that was the start of me getting in trouble. I’m deeply sorry if I offended or upset anybody by my often overenthusiastic and ill thought out press. The great thing about this blog is it’s not trying to do anything but explain the process (you’re probably going to see me get ridiculously exicted). https://developmolyneux.blog/ https://developmolyneux.blog/ > And I should make a note here that normally when I’m designing a game, and this is just me, it’s actually a terrible idea, so if anyone is reading this and thinking, right, this is how to design a game, don’t do this! I think, because of my dyslexia, I prefer not to write things down. I mean, you have to write things down when you’re communicating to a team, but in the early days, I think once I’ve written something down, I feel subconsciously that that’s it. It’s written in stone, there’s no more changing it. If you keep it inside your mind and keep mulling it over and thinking about it and wondering about it, and being very curious about how this idea evolves, then it’s much more likely to be fluid. And being fluid allows me to play around a lot with an idea. > Now the downside is you are depending on yourself to remember all that shit. Because it’s so easy to get excited about something, especially when under the influence of a mood enhancer. It’s very easy to forget about. > So I’m not saying that this game is going to be my last game, but I am saying that time is running out and that is incredibly sad, but that makes this game, in my mind, very, very meaningful. I feel it should be something which represents parts of my career and the many games I’ve been lucky to work on.

marcus_holmes 3y ago
OK, fair point, he acknowledges the pain caused. But then goes and does the exact same thing over again.
- Aeolun 3y ago
  I mean, it’s also our fault for believing it again :)

thomasz 3y ago

I never understood the extreme hate. "Pain"? We’re talking about video games, for Christ’s sake.

Lacerda69 3y ago

Black & White was amazing. Granted I was a kid back then so maybe impressionable, but few games have made me feel that intensely about some pixel people. I think he hit the spot with that one- even though I agree that the vision was much more grandiose...

dale_glass 3y ago
Black & White is good for the first level, and steadily goes downhill, as I recall. There's a level where you're constantly under attack. There's a level where you lose your creature, which is the game's main perk. And there's a level where it's impossible to progress without using brutal and extremely tedious means. And there's only 5 levels, so that's most of the game for you. It's like somebody said "Hey, we got the fun stuff out of the way, now let's have every kind of annoying mission a game can have, one after another".
- tiltowait 3y ago
  While Land 3 arguably encourages a brutal assault, it's possible (as I recall) to beat peacefully—just harder. I thought the game's first three lands were great, though you're right that the first area is arguably the best. I can see what they were going for with land 4, and it could have been very rewarding, but I never felt the catharsis by breaking the curses that was probably intended. I did not like land 5, though.

_the_inflator 3y ago

> "And I don't believe a word of "this is my last game, so I want it to be amazing"." This and variations of "represent his life's work" are catchphrases he always uses to announce his next game. Sense of urgency ("last"), drama ("my life"). Just another phrase for "most bestes game I ever did!". Marketing...

highwaylights 3y ago

"Black & White was great, but there was always something just not quite right (or not quite complete) with it." That's how you end up getting us all extinctified by legions of Go playing deathbots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtzwiwkfUh0&t=4s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtzwiwkfUh0&t=4s

peterashford 3y ago

Also: Populous, Syndicate, The Movies. He made many of the best games of all time. Sure, he had some very public failures, but he had more ground breaking successes than almost anyone else