5 ms·

My personal theory is that if you're an extrovert, you were more resistant to the quarantine, because you couldn't see your friends, and there's some connection

My personal theory is that if you're an extrovert, you were more resistant to the quarantine, because you couldn't see your friends, and there's some connection between that and getting the vaccine, like you'd probably already been ignoring the other rules, playing down the whole thing on a subconscious level. Something like that. It makes perfect sense to me in a weird way that's hard to describe the precise causality of, but that somehow sounds more likely than extrovert = narcissist = doesn't believe scientists. edit, some possible causalities: - the study was somehow biased to define as extroverted people who ignored quarantine - extroverts who ignored quarantine were more likely to get COVID, which they believed gave them a similar level of immunity - my aforementioned moral equivocation, like, if I'm ignoring this it's because people telling me what to do must be wrong, etc.

climatekid 3y ago
> they believed gave them a similar level of immunity Believed correctly
- selcuka 3y ago
  > > they believed gave them a similar level of immunity > Believed correctly Research disagrees: https://www.immunology.org/public-information/vaccine-resources/covid-19/covid-19-vaccine-infographics/covid-immunity-infection-vaccine https://www.immunology.org/public-information/vaccine-resour...
  - nvm0n2 3y ago
    There is a large strain of "research" that tells public health authorities whatever they want to hear. Raw case rates normalized by pop size from the UK: vaccinated people were getting COVID at 3x-4x the rate of the unvaccinated by the time they stopped reporting the figures. Natural immunity was actually much better than the vaccine because it developed whole-virus protection to all the proteins not just the spike, so you don't get Hoskin's Effect and variants find it harder to evade.
    - samirillian 3y ago
      Lol, for the record, this is why I didn't make a claim one way or the other.
    - selcuka 3y ago
      > vaccinated people were getting COVID at 3x-4x the rate of the unvaccinated by the time they stopped reporting the figures. Citation needed.
      - canoebuilder 3y ago
        https://twitter.com/tlowdon/status/1496894355621113857 https://twitter.com/tlowdon/status/1496894355621113857 This guy documented it really well. You'll have to sign in to look at his other posts. Just search "uk infection rates" or some such on his profile. from:tlowdon uk infection rates
        selcuka 3y ago
        > This guy documented it really well. Nothing in his analysis is right. First, he uses that infection stats for a variant (Omicron), but the vaccine targeted the origina known to be less effective against it. So technically speaking, assuming that most unvaccinated people were infected (and some died) with other variants by then, they were better prepared against Omicron. Not making and distributing an Omicron-specific vaccine was a logistics issue, not a technical one. That being said, remember that Omicron turned out to be a relatively less lethal variant, so being vaccinated was a net win, because a percentage of anti-vaccine people died with the original virus, and the Delta variant while trying to gain natural immunisation against it. We can't compare the risks of vaccination and actually getting sick. Second, he is comparing case numbers (not deaths, or hospitalisations), which won't work, because it only demonstrates that vaccinated people are more likely to go and get tested when they feel sick, and unvaccinated people are less likely as anti-vaccine community (I know that not all unvaccinated people are anti-vaccine) generally don't think that they have a responsibility to keep other people safe.
- lmorchard 3y ago
  Even if correct (doubtful), you also get to experience actual disease caused by the virus. Which, sure, for many folks, was mild. But, for many other folks, it was decidedly not mild at all. The funny thing is you don't hear as much from the latter group of folks - because, extrovert or not, lots of them stopped talking altogether.
anovikov 3y ago
[flagged]
- joecasson 3y ago
  Do you have something to support the claim that liberals tend to be introverted?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mrangle 3y ago
  [flagged]
- tormeh 3y ago
  Have you considered not basing your life decisions on spite/opposition? I mean, vaccines are great and all, but your reason for taking the covid one is a little amusing. I guess I just really dislike the culture war.
- kikokikokiko 3y ago
  Liberals tend to be introverted? You know that the "creative" types, the "arts and Hollywood people", are composed of 90%+ liberals right? Introverted, ok...
- canoebuilder 3y ago
  > got vaccines and boosters as soon as i could simply due to my political identification (i don't care about virus itself Did you also have any reservations about the safety of the injections, or just assumed it was safe? Which of course there was no way of knowing. Because if you had reservations about safety or anything else but still got it because of the value you saw in it as a “political marker” that is surprising to me. What is the deal recently with “political markers?” The term itself seems to have even come into far more use recently. Why is it do you think that “political markers” have come to take such precedence for some people?
  - anovikov 3y ago
sandworm101 3y ago
Or, introverts are more likely to read rather than take advice from the loud guy at the end of the bar. I have had every vaccination I could, because I grew up in a country where they really meant something. Ever seen measles in person? You will be running to get every COVID shot you can once you've seen such things. In my observation, people with wide international backgrounds trend away from extroversion.
- samirillian 3y ago
  Well you don't do much for your argument about reading by claiming that seeing measles in person is what convinced you.
spaceghostpurrp 3y ago
one could use this information and argue that introverts are less willing to go against the grain.
- mrangle 3y ago
  I'd doubt that. Extroverts are more socially oriented.
- selcuka 3y ago
  It depends on how you define "grain". What I personally observed during COVID was anti-vaccine people made a bigger noise than the scientific community.
canoebuilder 3y ago
>like you'd probably already been ignoring the other rules, playing down the whole thing on a subconscious level. Something like that. It makes perfect sense to me in a weird way that's hard to describe the precise causality of Yeah I get what you’re saying, something like sunk cost, or inertia, though not exactly, as you say. To me, leaving aside the positing here of extroversion, I think the strongest correlation was something like an iq test, or critical thinking test. At the time of the “you must get injected, and if you don’t you’re despicable, and if you refuse we’re going to hold you down and stick it in you” campaign it was entirely clear, if not well before then, that the actual risk of the COVID infection itself to anyone in even reasonably good health was far below being injected with some experimental gene modification thing. I think most people above a certain iq percentile looking into the method of proposed action that was presumed to be effective, which of course wasn’t, thought “WTF why would I want to experimentally modify my genes in response to this? That seems insane.” Then there was the outright lying in claims being bandied about. The initial studies in no way showed that it stopped infection, transmission, or death. But that’s all you ever heard. In December 2020 I saw a short news report from a hospital in France I think covering some of the earliest injections. Somewhere towards the end of that report it was said “It’s a vaccine just like any other vaccine.” WTF I thought, that’s exactly the opposite of what it is, it is a “vaccine” completely different from any other. Then by July 2021 the buzzwords had shifted to calling things like serious heart issues (any heart issue, is a serious issue) mild. “Oh they’re just having some mild heart issues, no biggie.” It was a completely egregious, evil abomination all round. Back to the correlations, it didn’t really follow iq linearly like income or health outcomes or other socioeconomic data tends to, it was more the reserve of the far extents of the bell curve as shown in the mid wit bell curve meme. Using level of educational attainment as a proxy for iq, not a perfect correlate of course, those with phds were indeed the least likely to fall for the injections among those with post secondary degrees according to the data I’ve seen. Then a somewhat separate matter was those who were put in the ghastly situation of being made to choose between their livelihoods, or seeing their family, or whatnot, and being injected. I can see some high iq critical thinkers making tough decisions under that level of coercion.
- belltaco 3y ago
  > it was entirely clear, if not well before then, that the actual risk of the COVID infection itself to anyone in even reasonably good health was far below being injected with some experimental gene modification thing MRNA doesn't modify genes, that's not how MRNA works at all, it flows downstream from DNA. I would hope the so called high IQ critical thinkers would spend a few minutes on how MRNA, RNA, and DNA work. The whole thing reads like the Dunning-Kruger effect in action. MRNA is very interesting and works like programming, because the cell's machinery is like a Turing machine protein printer that reads MRNA like the Turing machine tape, so it's extra ironic that on Hacker News we have people with limited idea of how it even works, but are confident that it somehow 'edits genes'. Respiratory viruses are fundamentally bits of MRNA that tell cells to make virus copies. When you have heard of flu or cold viruses editing genes? How much percentage of people in western countries are in generally good health anyway? See how many more deaths happened in Biden counties vs. Trump's because of people falling for pseudo-scientific misinformation like you. https://www.npr.org/2022/05/19/1098543849/pro-trump-counties-continue-to-suffer-far-higher-covid-death-tolls https://www.npr.org/2022/05/19/1098543849/pro-trump-counties... So many sad victims of self serving political misinformation. > Using level of educational attainment as a proxy for iq, not a perfect correlate of course, those with phds were indeed the least likely to fall for the injections among those with post secondary degrees according to the data I’ve seen. What data have you seen? Even in the self reported survey that was used for misinformation to mislead people like you, 75% of PhDs said they would vaccinate. https://www.wnct.com/news/north-carolina/fact-check-setting-the-record-straight-on-claims-about-vaccine-hesitancy-among-ph-d-s/ https://www.wnct.com/news/north-carolina/fact-check-setting-... Not to mention 95% of actual medical doctors in a survey. Derek Lowe had great articles on Covid throughout.

climatekid 3y ago

> they believed gave them a similar level of immunity Believed correctly

selcuka 3y ago
> > they believed gave them a similar level of immunity > Believed correctly Research disagrees: https://www.immunology.org/public-information/vaccine-resources/covid-19/covid-19-vaccine-infographics/covid-immunity-infection-vaccine https://www.immunology.org/public-information/vaccine-resour...
- nvm0n2 3y ago
  There is a large strain of "research" that tells public health authorities whatever they want to hear. Raw case rates normalized by pop size from the UK: vaccinated people were getting COVID at 3x-4x the rate of the unvaccinated by the time they stopped reporting the figures. Natural immunity was actually much better than the vaccine because it developed whole-virus protection to all the proteins not just the spike, so you don't get Hoskin's Effect and variants find it harder to evade.
  - samirillian 3y ago
    Lol, for the record, this is why I didn't make a claim one way or the other.
  - selcuka 3y ago
    > vaccinated people were getting COVID at 3x-4x the rate of the unvaccinated by the time they stopped reporting the figures. Citation needed.
    - canoebuilder 3y ago
      https://twitter.com/tlowdon/status/1496894355621113857 https://twitter.com/tlowdon/status/1496894355621113857 This guy documented it really well. You'll have to sign in to look at his other posts. Just search "uk infection rates" or some such on his profile. from:tlowdon uk infection rates
      - selcuka 3y ago
        > This guy documented it really well. Nothing in his analysis is right. First, he uses that infection stats for a variant (Omicron), but the vaccine targeted the origina known to be less effective against it. So technically speaking, assuming that most unvaccinated people were infected (and some died) with other variants by then, they were better prepared against Omicron. Not making and distributing an Omicron-specific vaccine was a logistics issue, not a technical one. That being said, remember that Omicron turned out to be a relatively less lethal variant, so being vaccinated was a net win, because a percentage of anti-vaccine people died with the original virus, and the Delta variant while trying to gain natural immunisation against it. We can't compare the risks of vaccination and actually getting sick. Second, he is comparing case numbers (not deaths, or hospitalisations), which won't work, because it only demonstrates that vaccinated people are more likely to go and get tested when they feel sick, and unvaccinated people are less likely as anti-vaccine community (I know that not all unvaccinated people are anti-vaccine) generally don't think that they have a responsibility to keep other people safe.
lmorchard 3y ago
Even if correct (doubtful), you also get to experience actual disease caused by the virus. Which, sure, for many folks, was mild. But, for many other folks, it was decidedly not mild at all. The funny thing is you don't hear as much from the latter group of folks - because, extrovert or not, lots of them stopped talking altogether.

anovikov 3y ago

[flagged]

joecasson 3y ago
Do you have something to support the claim that liberals tend to be introverted?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mrangle 3y ago
[flagged]
tormeh 3y ago
Have you considered not basing your life decisions on spite/opposition? I mean, vaccines are great and all, but your reason for taking the covid one is a little amusing. I guess I just really dislike the culture war.
kikokikokiko 3y ago
Liberals tend to be introverted? You know that the "creative" types, the "arts and Hollywood people", are composed of 90%+ liberals right? Introverted, ok...
canoebuilder 3y ago
> got vaccines and boosters as soon as i could simply due to my political identification (i don't care about virus itself Did you also have any reservations about the safety of the injections, or just assumed it was safe? Which of course there was no way of knowing. Because if you had reservations about safety or anything else but still got it because of the value you saw in it as a “political marker” that is surprising to me. What is the deal recently with “political markers?” The term itself seems to have even come into far more use recently. Why is it do you think that “political markers” have come to take such precedence for some people?
- anovikov 3y ago

sandworm101 3y ago

Or, introverts are more likely to read rather than take advice from the loud guy at the end of the bar. I have had every vaccination I could, because I grew up in a country where they really meant something. Ever seen measles in person? You will be running to get every COVID shot you can once you've seen such things. In my observation, people with wide international backgrounds trend away from extroversion.

samirillian 3y ago
Well you don't do much for your argument about reading by claiming that seeing measles in person is what convinced you.

spaceghostpurrp 3y ago

one could use this information and argue that introverts are less willing to go against the grain.

mrangle 3y ago
I'd doubt that. Extroverts are more socially oriented.
selcuka 3y ago
It depends on how you define "grain". What I personally observed during COVID was anti-vaccine people made a bigger noise than the scientific community.

canoebuilder 3y ago

>like you'd probably already been ignoring the other rules, playing down the whole thing on a subconscious level. Something like that. It makes perfect sense to me in a weird way that's hard to describe the precise causality of Yeah I get what you’re saying, something like sunk cost, or inertia, though not exactly, as you say. To me, leaving aside the positing here of extroversion, I think the strongest correlation was something like an iq test, or critical thinking test. At the time of the “you must get injected, and if you don’t you’re despicable, and if you refuse we’re going to hold you down and stick it in you” campaign it was entirely clear, if not well before then, that the actual risk of the COVID infection itself to anyone in even reasonably good health was far below being injected with some experimental gene modification thing. I think most people above a certain iq percentile looking into the method of proposed action that was presumed to be effective, which of course wasn’t, thought “WTF why would I want to experimentally modify my genes in response to this? That seems insane.” Then there was the outright lying in claims being bandied about. The initial studies in no way showed that it stopped infection, transmission, or death. But that’s all you ever heard. In December 2020 I saw a short news report from a hospital in France I think covering some of the earliest injections. Somewhere towards the end of that report it was said “It’s a vaccine just like any other vaccine.” WTF I thought, that’s exactly the opposite of what it is, it is a “vaccine” completely different from any other. Then by July 2021 the buzzwords had shifted to calling things like serious heart issues (any heart issue, is a serious issue) mild. “Oh they’re just having some mild heart issues, no biggie.” It was a completely egregious, evil abomination all round. Back to the correlations, it didn’t really follow iq linearly like income or health outcomes or other socioeconomic data tends to, it was more the reserve of the far extents of the bell curve as shown in the mid wit bell curve meme. Using level of educational attainment as a proxy for iq, not a perfect correlate of course, those with phds were indeed the least likely to fall for the injections among those with post secondary degrees according to the data I’ve seen. Then a somewhat separate matter was those who were put in the ghastly situation of being made to choose between their livelihoods, or seeing their family, or whatnot, and being injected. I can see some high iq critical thinkers making tough decisions under that level of coercion.

belltaco 3y ago
> it was entirely clear, if not well before then, that the actual risk of the COVID infection itself to anyone in even reasonably good health was far below being injected with some experimental gene modification thing MRNA doesn't modify genes, that's not how MRNA works at all, it flows downstream from DNA. I would hope the so called high IQ critical thinkers would spend a few minutes on how MRNA, RNA, and DNA work. The whole thing reads like the Dunning-Kruger effect in action. MRNA is very interesting and works like programming, because the cell's machinery is like a Turing machine protein printer that reads MRNA like the Turing machine tape, so it's extra ironic that on Hacker News we have people with limited idea of how it even works, but are confident that it somehow 'edits genes'. Respiratory viruses are fundamentally bits of MRNA that tell cells to make virus copies. When you have heard of flu or cold viruses editing genes? How much percentage of people in western countries are in generally good health anyway? See how many more deaths happened in Biden counties vs. Trump's because of people falling for pseudo-scientific misinformation like you. https://www.npr.org/2022/05/19/1098543849/pro-trump-counties-continue-to-suffer-far-higher-covid-death-tolls https://www.npr.org/2022/05/19/1098543849/pro-trump-counties... So many sad victims of self serving political misinformation. > Using level of educational attainment as a proxy for iq, not a perfect correlate of course, those with phds were indeed the least likely to fall for the injections among those with post secondary degrees according to the data I’ve seen. What data have you seen? Even in the self reported survey that was used for misinformation to mislead people like you, 75% of PhDs said they would vaccinate. https://www.wnct.com/news/north-carolina/fact-check-setting-the-record-straight-on-claims-about-vaccine-hesitancy-among-ph-d-s/ https://www.wnct.com/news/north-carolina/fact-check-setting-... Not to mention 95% of actual medical doctors in a survey. Derek Lowe had great articles on Covid throughout.