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The charging situation is dismal, except for the Tesla network. Automakers seem to want to just sell a car and let the private sector figure out charging... Me

The charging situation is dismal, except for the Tesla network. Automakers seem to want to just sell a car and let the private sector figure out charging... Meanwhile in the charging sector, oil companies are buying up charging networks and established ICE vendors are neglecting the networks they were forced to build.

wredue 3y ago
Nobody wants charging malls. Everyone wants to charge at home. But that’s still not going to be enough to topple the issue that battery cars are $20,000 more expensive than their ICE counterparts, which is more than the whole budget most people have for a car as it is.
- csa 3y ago
  > battery cars are $20,000 more expensive than their ICE counterparts I’m not sure where you are, but this is certainly not true in the US broadly speaking. $10k might be believable… sort of… but that typically doesn’t factor in total cost of ownership. Current EVs have quite a bit lower total cost of ownership for most use cases. Regarding prices, I got a model y in 2021. It was comparable in purchase price and specs to a Toyota Highlander hybrid, but cost of ownership is lower and resell value may be higher.
  - thechao 3y ago
    For the same class of car Y is in, it's comparable in price to an ICE. But there just aren't any 15–30k$ EVs for purchase. OTOH, my TCO for my Y is way better than Tesla represented. It's so good that it comes close to letting me amortize solar panels on my roof.
    - dangus 3y ago
      Chevy Bolt EUV, Chevy Bolt EV, Nissan Leaf
      - thomspoon 3y ago
        All of which are discontinued as of this year…
        dangus 3y ago
        > The Japanese company, however, said it will phase out the Leaf in the next few years and replace it with a new vehicle by 2026. I see a 2024 Nissan Leaf on the website. It doesn't sound like Nissan will leave a gap or immediately discontinue the Leaf. https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/teslas-latest-all-electric-rival-unveils-sporty-urban-vehicle https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/teslas-latest-al... GM also confirmed a second-generation Ultium-based Bolt successor. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44639082/chevrolet-bolt-ev-second-generation-details/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44639082/chevrolet-bolt-e...
    - NewJazz 3y ago
      Mini Cooper SE is like 25k haha. I don't know why you're fixated on that price point, though.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > battery cars are $20,000 more expensive than their ICE counterparts It's not new, but it is the problem: We need to stop subsidizing ICE cars by letting them dump greenhouse gasses into everyone's atmosephere.
- lowbloodsugar 3y ago
  The base model 3 is $38k with a $7500 tax credit, so $31k. An equivalent sized ICE will set you back at least $20k, if you can find a base model, and that won’t have the performance or capacity of the Tesla.
- nradov 3y ago
  The average US buyer spends $48K total (including taxes and fees) on a new vehicle. There are hardly any models left in the $20K range. https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/kbb-atp-july-2023/ https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/kbb-atp-july-2023...
commandlinefan 3y ago
> except for the Tesla network. I have a Tesla... you're saying that other EV's charging situation is _even worse_? If I can't charge the thing at home, I just plain can't charge it. If I'm lucky enough to be able to find a charging station, and I'm lucky enough that there are any available charging stations, and I'm lucky enough that the available charging station isn't broken, I have to install some random charging company app on my phone, pre-pay with a credit card, plug my car in for a couple of hours and then come back and hope it worked.
- D13Fd 3y ago
  Just wait until the EU forces manufacturers to enable side loading, and you have to side load an app to charge your car, and that app monitors your activity and sells it to advertisers...
  - kmeisthax 3y ago
    Of course, that monitoring would be prohibited under EU GDPR.
    - lowbloodsugar 3y ago
      Bad company! Here is $1m fine on your $20bn profit. Lol.

wredue 3y ago

Nobody wants charging malls. Everyone wants to charge at home. But that’s still not going to be enough to topple the issue that battery cars are $20,000 more expensive than their ICE counterparts, which is more than the whole budget most people have for a car as it is.

csa 3y ago
> battery cars are $20,000 more expensive than their ICE counterparts I’m not sure where you are, but this is certainly not true in the US broadly speaking. $10k might be believable… sort of… but that typically doesn’t factor in total cost of ownership. Current EVs have quite a bit lower total cost of ownership for most use cases. Regarding prices, I got a model y in 2021. It was comparable in purchase price and specs to a Toyota Highlander hybrid, but cost of ownership is lower and resell value may be higher.
- thechao 3y ago
  For the same class of car Y is in, it's comparable in price to an ICE. But there just aren't any 15–30k$ EVs for purchase. OTOH, my TCO for my Y is way better than Tesla represented. It's so good that it comes close to letting me amortize solar panels on my roof.
  - dangus 3y ago
    Chevy Bolt EUV, Chevy Bolt EV, Nissan Leaf
    - thomspoon 3y ago
      All of which are discontinued as of this year…
      - dangus 3y ago
        > The Japanese company, however, said it will phase out the Leaf in the next few years and replace it with a new vehicle by 2026. I see a 2024 Nissan Leaf on the website. It doesn't sound like Nissan will leave a gap or immediately discontinue the Leaf. https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/teslas-latest-all-electric-rival-unveils-sporty-urban-vehicle https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/teslas-latest-al... GM also confirmed a second-generation Ultium-based Bolt successor. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44639082/chevrolet-bolt-ev-second-generation-details/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44639082/chevrolet-bolt-e...
  - NewJazz 3y ago
    Mini Cooper SE is like 25k haha. I don't know why you're fixated on that price point, though.
wolverine876 3y ago
> battery cars are $20,000 more expensive than their ICE counterparts It's not new, but it is the problem: We need to stop subsidizing ICE cars by letting them dump greenhouse gasses into everyone's atmosephere.
lowbloodsugar 3y ago
The base model 3 is $38k with a $7500 tax credit, so $31k. An equivalent sized ICE will set you back at least $20k, if you can find a base model, and that won’t have the performance or capacity of the Tesla.
nradov 3y ago
The average US buyer spends $48K total (including taxes and fees) on a new vehicle. There are hardly any models left in the $20K range. https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/kbb-atp-july-2023/ https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/kbb-atp-july-2023...

commandlinefan 3y ago

> except for the Tesla network. I have a Tesla... you're saying that other EV's charging situation is _even worse_? If I can't charge the thing at home, I just plain can't charge it. If I'm lucky enough to be able to find a charging station, and I'm lucky enough that there are any available charging stations, and I'm lucky enough that the available charging station isn't broken, I have to install some random charging company app on my phone, pre-pay with a credit card, plug my car in for a couple of hours and then come back and hope it worked.

D13Fd 3y ago
Just wait until the EU forces manufacturers to enable side loading, and you have to side load an app to charge your car, and that app monitors your activity and sells it to advertisers...
- kmeisthax 3y ago
  Of course, that monitoring would be prohibited under EU GDPR.
  - lowbloodsugar 3y ago
    Bad company! Here is $1m fine on your $20bn profit. Lol.