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I don’t know about OP, but, personally, the reason I don’t subscribe to premium is because they get aggressive on ads on purpose (waves of unskippable ads follo

by Diti 3y ago

I don’t know about OP, but, personally, the reason I don’t subscribe to premium is because they get aggressive on ads on purpose (waves of unskippable ads followed by a YouTube Premium subscription request the day after), which I believe is a dark pattern. I would have been okay with paying for a subscription if it was to support the website or its creators – but I take manipulation attempts very badly.

epgui 3y ago
+1 I wouldn’t even notice the subscription costs, but at this point Google has only succeeded in alienating me. I have disproportionately negative feelings about this.
- throw_nbvc1234 3y ago
  If you had willingly jumped from ad block to premium any time in the last 5 years would you still feel alienated? Reacting to google blocking ad-blockers as a reason not to subscribe to premium is just rationalizing not paying creators for content. I personally don't even remember what ads are like on Youtube and have zero idea how they've changed since the Youtube Red days.
  - depereo 3y ago
    I had Red through my google play music subscription but then they turned music into a YouTube nonsense app that removed features I liked and tripled the costs. I'd subscribe to YouTube premium if it didn't bundle a music subscription and associated cost.
    - Thorrez 3y ago
      >tripled the costs. According to this article, when Youtube red was introduced in October 2015, it was $9.99/month. It's now $13.99/month. That's a 40% increase. If you adjust $9.99 in October 2015 for inflation to September 2023, it's $12.93/month. So inflation-adjusted, the price increased 8.2% from 2015 to now. https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/21/9566973/youtube-red-ad-free-offline-paid-subscription-service https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/21/9566973/youtube-red-ad-f... https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=9.99&year1=201510&year2=202309 https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=9.99&year1=201... Disclosure: I work at Google but not on Youtube.
      - SoullessSilent 3y ago
        Your calculation doesnt take into account increases in income. As mine has not increased since before 2015 then that would still be a 40% increase to me.
        Thorrez 3y ago
        Are you interested in * Increases in income of the population then vs now, which would be good for comparing the economy then vs now (e.g. median income then vs now) * Increases in income following cohorts, which would be good for see how on average individual people's income has risen due to both the economy and gained experience (e.g. 25 year old in 2015 would be 33 now, and thus likely make more money both due to population-wide changes (e.g. inflation) and due to having more work experience) * Increases in income of a few individual people (the example you provided) For the first one, this page[1], says that in 2021 dollars, the median US household income was $68410, and in 2022 (also in 2021 dollars) it was $74580. So adjusting those back to their in-year dollars, that would be $61,426.62 in 2015[2] and $86,662.50 in 2023[3]. So adjusting the Youtube Red/Premium price change, to those numbers, results in Youtube Red/Premium decreasing price by 0.7% once adjusted for the US population's medium household income. For the second one, I think adjusting for that would should the price decreasing even more. Because each individual person's experience increases, so you would expect an individual's income to increase more than the population's income. For the third one, I don't see how it's useful to look at a few examples. One person's income might have doubled, showing the Youtube Red/Premium dropped drastically in price. Another person's income might have halved, showing Youtube Red/Premium increases drastically in price. Another person might have become unemployed, showing Youtube Red/Premium's price increased by infinity %. Another person might have gone from unemployed to having a job, showing Youtube Red/Premium's price decreases from infinity % of income to non-infinity % of income, so basically a decrease by inifnity %. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N [2] https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=68410&year1=202103&year2=201510 https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=68410&year1=20... [3] https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=74580&year1=202103&year2=202309 https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=74580&year1=20...
      - 3y ago
  - epgui 3y ago
    Call me entitled, but I believe people should have a fundamental right to refuse spam (errr advertising). In fact in Canada that’s more or less a thing. Basically for the same reason I think people should have a fundamental right to not listen to propaganda, or to not eat fast food. Garbage in, garbage out. You are what you eat, you are what you read/watch. If Youtube Premium had FEATURES I cared about, I would pay for it. I refuse to pay for the privilege of basic information hygiene.
mvdtnz 3y ago
Premium does support creators. Views from premium subscribers are worth significantly more than views from freeloaders.
- LtWorf 3y ago
  Most creators have to get sponsors because youtube is very unreliable with what can be monetized, what can't, unblocking stuff after fake reports and so on.
  - ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
    Regardless, YouTube Premium puts way more money in creators' pockets than ads and is more reliable.
    - copperx 3y ago
      If that is so, YouTube should incentivize creators to promote YouTube premium instead of them having to advertise for dubious VPN services.
      - Thorrez 3y ago
        >instead of them having to advertise for dubious VPN services. Do you think Youtube wants creators to do that? Youtube doesn't get a cut of that revenue, whereas Youtube does get a cut of regular Youtube ad revenue and Premium revenue. Disclosure: I work at Google but not on Youtube, and am just speculating here.
        justinclift 3y ago
        > Do you think Youtube wants creators to do that? Perhaps Google should think upon how things ended up this way then? Like, there are some pretty clear problems with Google's approach to (at least) YouTube, and they don't seem to really want to fix them...
nodja 3y ago
I have a tiny channel that posts long (3-4 hours) gameplay videos and premium is 80% of my revenue. I do have mid-rolls and unskippable ads turned off, but in my experience those would only increase my ad revenue by 10-20%, i.e. premium would still be ~77% of my revenue. For reference the average view duration for my videos is ~25 minutes (premium pays by total watch time). https://i.imgur.com/wqE2QJ2.png https://i.imgur.com/wqE2QJ2.png

by Diti 3y ago

epgui 3y ago

+1 I wouldn’t even notice the subscription costs, but at this point Google has only succeeded in alienating me. I have disproportionately negative feelings about this.

throw_nbvc1234 3y ago
If you had willingly jumped from ad block to premium any time in the last 5 years would you still feel alienated? Reacting to google blocking ad-blockers as a reason not to subscribe to premium is just rationalizing not paying creators for content. I personally don't even remember what ads are like on Youtube and have zero idea how they've changed since the Youtube Red days.
- depereo 3y ago
  I had Red through my google play music subscription but then they turned music into a YouTube nonsense app that removed features I liked and tripled the costs. I'd subscribe to YouTube premium if it didn't bundle a music subscription and associated cost.
  - Thorrez 3y ago
    >tripled the costs. According to this article, when Youtube red was introduced in October 2015, it was $9.99/month. It's now $13.99/month. That's a 40% increase. If you adjust $9.99 in October 2015 for inflation to September 2023, it's $12.93/month. So inflation-adjusted, the price increased 8.2% from 2015 to now. https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/21/9566973/youtube-red-ad-free-offline-paid-subscription-service https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/21/9566973/youtube-red-ad-f... https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=9.99&year1=201510&year2=202309 https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=9.99&year1=201... Disclosure: I work at Google but not on Youtube.
    - SoullessSilent 3y ago
      Your calculation doesnt take into account increases in income. As mine has not increased since before 2015 then that would still be a 40% increase to me.
      - Thorrez 3y ago
        Are you interested in * Increases in income of the population then vs now, which would be good for comparing the economy then vs now (e.g. median income then vs now) * Increases in income following cohorts, which would be good for see how on average individual people's income has risen due to both the economy and gained experience (e.g. 25 year old in 2015 would be 33 now, and thus likely make more money both due to population-wide changes (e.g. inflation) and due to having more work experience) * Increases in income of a few individual people (the example you provided) For the first one, this page[1], says that in 2021 dollars, the median US household income was $68410, and in 2022 (also in 2021 dollars) it was $74580. So adjusting those back to their in-year dollars, that would be $61,426.62 in 2015[2] and $86,662.50 in 2023[3]. So adjusting the Youtube Red/Premium price change, to those numbers, results in Youtube Red/Premium decreasing price by 0.7% once adjusted for the US population's medium household income. For the second one, I think adjusting for that would should the price decreasing even more. Because each individual person's experience increases, so you would expect an individual's income to increase more than the population's income. For the third one, I don't see how it's useful to look at a few examples. One person's income might have doubled, showing the Youtube Red/Premium dropped drastically in price. Another person's income might have halved, showing Youtube Red/Premium increases drastically in price. Another person might have become unemployed, showing Youtube Red/Premium's price increased by infinity %. Another person might have gone from unemployed to having a job, showing Youtube Red/Premium's price decreases from infinity % of income to non-infinity % of income, so basically a decrease by inifnity %. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N [2] https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=68410&year1=202103&year2=201510 https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=68410&year1=20... [3] https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=74580&year1=202103&year2=202309 https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=74580&year1=20...
    - 3y ago
- epgui 3y ago
  Call me entitled, but I believe people should have a fundamental right to refuse spam (errr advertising). In fact in Canada that’s more or less a thing. Basically for the same reason I think people should have a fundamental right to not listen to propaganda, or to not eat fast food. Garbage in, garbage out. You are what you eat, you are what you read/watch. If Youtube Premium had FEATURES I cared about, I would pay for it. I refuse to pay for the privilege of basic information hygiene.

mvdtnz 3y ago

Premium does support creators. Views from premium subscribers are worth significantly more than views from freeloaders.

LtWorf 3y ago
Most creators have to get sponsors because youtube is very unreliable with what can be monetized, what can't, unblocking stuff after fake reports and so on.
- ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
  Regardless, YouTube Premium puts way more money in creators' pockets than ads and is more reliable.
  - copperx 3y ago
    If that is so, YouTube should incentivize creators to promote YouTube premium instead of them having to advertise for dubious VPN services.
    - Thorrez 3y ago
      >instead of them having to advertise for dubious VPN services. Do you think Youtube wants creators to do that? Youtube doesn't get a cut of that revenue, whereas Youtube does get a cut of regular Youtube ad revenue and Premium revenue. Disclosure: I work at Google but not on Youtube, and am just speculating here.
      - justinclift 3y ago
        > Do you think Youtube wants creators to do that? Perhaps Google should think upon how things ended up this way then? Like, there are some pretty clear problems with Google's approach to (at least) YouTube, and they don't seem to really want to fix them...

nodja 3y ago

I have a tiny channel that posts long (3-4 hours) gameplay videos and premium is 80% of my revenue. I do have mid-rolls and unskippable ads turned off, but in my experience those would only increase my ad revenue by 10-20%, i.e. premium would still be ~77% of my revenue. For reference the average view duration for my videos is ~25 minutes (premium pays by total watch time). https://i.imgur.com/wqE2QJ2.png https://i.imgur.com/wqE2QJ2.png