4 ms·

Makes you wonder how long theyve been able to do this

by strangesmells02 3y ago

mohaba 3y ago
Checking the DOCSIS standards, maybe 2013?
- mlyle 3y ago
  DOCSIS 4 gear that can do symmetric for many homes has really only started to show up in the last year. High-split DOCSIS 3.1 topped out at about 1.5gbit/sec upstream shared among all customers on a segment.
- metaphor 3y ago
  How'd you figure? DOCSIS 4.0 spec[1] was first issued circa Aug 2019 and has undergone 6-10 revisions since. [1] https://www.cablelabs.com/specifications/search?currentPage=1&query=&category=DOCSIS&subcat=DOCSIS%204.0&doctype=&content=false&archives=false https://www.cablelabs.com/specifications/search?currentPage=...
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    They're looking at DOCSIS 3.1 "up to 10 Gbit/s downstream and 1 Gbit/s upstream" Most of the 4.0 improvement is upload. 3.1 wouldn't do 2Gbps symmetrical, but it would do 2Gbps down with a reasonable up.
- martinald 3y ago
  The problem with DOCSIS though is contention; not 'headline speeds'. I'm sure you could have ran a gigabit network on DOCSIS back then; but since that all networks have split the CMTS nodes more and more. If you enabled gigabit in 2013 on most networks it would have ground to a crawl because there was too many users per segment. Since then the networks have split the segment(fewer people competing for the same resources) and also the tech has got better with 3.1 and now 4.0. It's not quite as simple as flipping a switch and giving everyone gigabit.
silisili 3y ago
A long time. I worked with Charter briefly 20 or so years ago, and the plan even then was to slowly roll up speeds, to always be giving people something to 'upgrade' to.
- TaylorAlexander 3y ago
  It’s amazing the subtle ways that pursuit of profit can slow down progress. We’re well aware of the big obvious ways that can happen but there’s seemingly small things like this too which add up.
  - kortilla 3y ago
    The issue here is lack of competition, not profit.
    - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
      I think in this case they are related. There are network effects to building the lines, so the difficulty with earning a profit prevents more companies from building out their network. This leads to a lack of competition (I’m sure government intervention has adversely affected this too). But an organization like a co-op or a government would built the lines with no concern for profitability, and find some scheme to lease them to users at cost. Compared to a for-profit which artificially keeps speeds low, the government or co-op would lead to better cheaper service. So broadly the pursuit of profit changes the way the organization works. The profit incentive potentially directly leads to the lack of competition. It also leads these organizations to lobby for government intervention which impedes competition. This last point is also why I would advocate for a co-op over government management, but I’d take either over for-profit networks.
      - parineum 3y ago
        > government would built the lines with no concern for profitability >It also leads these organizations to lobby for government intervention which impedes competition The problem with both of these scenarios is the same, government corruption. Without the corruption, municipal fiber or the free market would work great. The bad guys here are the corrupt regulators, not the evil capitalists.
linsomniac 3y ago
According to Wikipedia, DOCSIS 4.0 was standardized in 2017 with 10gig down and 6gig up. But also DOCSIS 3.1 was from 2013 and could do "1-2 Gbps" upstream. So it seems like 1gig up, and maybe 2gig up, has been available for a decade, as far as the protocols.

Makes you wonder how long theyve been able to do this

mohaba 3y ago

Checking the DOCSIS standards, maybe 2013?

mlyle 3y ago
DOCSIS 4 gear that can do symmetric for many homes has really only started to show up in the last year. High-split DOCSIS 3.1 topped out at about 1.5gbit/sec upstream shared among all customers on a segment.
metaphor 3y ago
How'd you figure? DOCSIS 4.0 spec[1] was first issued circa Aug 2019 and has undergone 6-10 revisions since. [1] https://www.cablelabs.com/specifications/search?currentPage=1&query=&category=DOCSIS&subcat=DOCSIS%204.0&doctype=&content=false&archives=false https://www.cablelabs.com/specifications/search?currentPage=...
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  They're looking at DOCSIS 3.1 "up to 10 Gbit/s downstream and 1 Gbit/s upstream" Most of the 4.0 improvement is upload. 3.1 wouldn't do 2Gbps symmetrical, but it would do 2Gbps down with a reasonable up.
martinald 3y ago
The problem with DOCSIS though is contention; not 'headline speeds'. I'm sure you could have ran a gigabit network on DOCSIS back then; but since that all networks have split the CMTS nodes more and more. If you enabled gigabit in 2013 on most networks it would have ground to a crawl because there was too many users per segment. Since then the networks have split the segment(fewer people competing for the same resources) and also the tech has got better with 3.1 and now 4.0. It's not quite as simple as flipping a switch and giving everyone gigabit.

silisili 3y ago

A long time. I worked with Charter briefly 20 or so years ago, and the plan even then was to slowly roll up speeds, to always be giving people something to 'upgrade' to.

TaylorAlexander 3y ago
It’s amazing the subtle ways that pursuit of profit can slow down progress. We’re well aware of the big obvious ways that can happen but there’s seemingly small things like this too which add up.
- kortilla 3y ago
  The issue here is lack of competition, not profit.
  - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
    I think in this case they are related. There are network effects to building the lines, so the difficulty with earning a profit prevents more companies from building out their network. This leads to a lack of competition (I’m sure government intervention has adversely affected this too). But an organization like a co-op or a government would built the lines with no concern for profitability, and find some scheme to lease them to users at cost. Compared to a for-profit which artificially keeps speeds low, the government or co-op would lead to better cheaper service. So broadly the pursuit of profit changes the way the organization works. The profit incentive potentially directly leads to the lack of competition. It also leads these organizations to lobby for government intervention which impedes competition. This last point is also why I would advocate for a co-op over government management, but I’d take either over for-profit networks.
    - parineum 3y ago
      > government would built the lines with no concern for profitability >It also leads these organizations to lobby for government intervention which impedes competition The problem with both of these scenarios is the same, government corruption. Without the corruption, municipal fiber or the free market would work great. The bad guys here are the corrupt regulators, not the evil capitalists.

linsomniac 3y ago

According to Wikipedia, DOCSIS 4.0 was standardized in 2017 with 10gig down and 6gig up. But also DOCSIS 3.1 was from 2013 and could do "1-2 Gbps" upstream. So it seems like 1gig up, and maybe 2gig up, has been available for a decade, as far as the protocols.