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It seems like over the past 10 years there has been a global retreat from freedom and democracy. China is returning to at least a superficially softer version

by api 3y ago

It seems like over the past 10 years there has been a global retreat from freedom and democracy. China is returning to at least a superficially softer version of Maoism. Russia has returned to Stalinism. The Middle East never had much of a liberal tradition but it’s certainly not gained any ground. The US is flirting with populist strong man rule with Trump and RFK. South America seems to keep oscillating between authoritarian socialism and their own forms of right wing strong man rule. Not sure about Africa but from afar it still seems dominated by strong men or illiberal theocratic states. The UK and EU felt like an exception but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Both are trending toward undemocratic bureaucracies in service to either the bureaucracy itself or the powerful. Surveillance is everywhere and is barely challenged. After all we get cute videos on social media and apparently cute videos are more important than freedom or human rights. One problem might be that we teach everyone about the dangers of fanatical explosive totalitarian movements like Hitlerism and Stalinism but not enough about “softer” creeping authoritarianism that is less easy to identify or oppose. Both are a risk but the strong man cult type is easier to mobilize people against.

deleted 3y ago
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mrtksn 3y ago
>The UK and EU felt like an exception but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Both are trending toward undemocratic bureaucracies in service to either the bureaucracy itself or the powerful. The whole public opinion shifted towards security over everything, unfortunately. As a result, the institutions follow.
- throwaway50662 3y ago
  No, not the whole. There are entire states in the EU that are against that. Unfortunately these are the smaller ones so they can't do anything about it and it's being forced upon their populations, regardless of what anyone says about how sovereign they are.
  - mrtksn 3y ago
    All states have a right of veto.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- Saline9515 3y ago
  Rather more the local media. I can't think of a mainstream newspaper in my country (France) that is publicly pro-freedom of speech.
kypro 3y ago
> One problem might be that we teach everyone about the dangers of fanatical explosive totalitarian movements like Hitlerism and Stalinism but not enough about “softer” creeping authoritarianism that is less easy to identify or oppose. Both are a risk but the strong man cult type is easier to mobilize people against. This is entirely the problem in my opinion. When you talk to Europeans you'll notice they tend to be very concerned about the dangers of things like extremism and hate speech, but not at all about state authoritarianism. But why is that? I'd argue that today your life is much more likely to be ruined because you hold the wrong social opinions or political views rather than your neighbour denying the holocaust[1]. And there is an ugly righteousness developing here too. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to defend people's right to dislike Islam or be homophobic, for example. A lot of Europeans genuinely believe these views are so evil that people deserve to be punished for holding them. But how can I really blame them? The media here constantly reminds us about the dangers of terrorist and and extremism. It constantly tells us how evil it is to hold certain opinions. And most people don't reason about this stuff from first principles. They just assume that the extremism is a threat so end up contributing to the problem by demanding the state does more to suppress our freedoms. It's difficult to see this getting better and if it did it would be because we put equal effort into warning about creeping authoritarianism. Obviously this isn't going to happen, but that is the solution. [1] I'll note that I'm referring explicitly to the illegality of holocaust denialism here. I'm not talking about people who deny the holocaust and are planning to commit mass murder. The difference here is someone who holds unfavourable views vs someone who's genuinely a danger to the public. --- Legal note: I do not support any hateful ideologies, but I do believe people should be free to express views which may be considered hateful. My comments are not intended to undermine how awful holocaust denialism is in any way.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Your neighbor denying the holocaist, sticking with your example, are the people that would allow a government to become oppressive.
- api 3y ago
  Here’s an analogy: Populist demagogues becoming dictators or the rise of fanatical cult ideologies are like hurricanes and tornadoes. They can start quickly, hit hard, and do a ton of damage. They are also easy to spot and there are known ways to respond to them. Creeping bureaucratic authoritarianism and the slow erosion of democracy is like climate change. It ebbs and flows but mostly flows, but the trend is slow and on any given day it feels like everything is fine. By the time it gets bad enough to really hurt your democratic institutions are pretty far gone and the situation may not be easily recoverable. They’re also not mutually exclusive problems. As climate change progresses you can get more and stronger hurricanes. In the same way the erosion of democracy and the growth of unchecked autocracy creates a situation that is ripe for the rise of demagogues.

by api 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

mrtksn 3y ago

>The UK and EU felt like an exception but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Both are trending toward undemocratic bureaucracies in service to either the bureaucracy itself or the powerful. The whole public opinion shifted towards security over everything, unfortunately. As a result, the institutions follow.

throwaway50662 3y ago
No, not the whole. There are entire states in the EU that are against that. Unfortunately these are the smaller ones so they can't do anything about it and it's being forced upon their populations, regardless of what anyone says about how sovereign they are.
- mrtksn 3y ago
  All states have a right of veto.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
Saline9515 3y ago
Rather more the local media. I can't think of a mainstream newspaper in my country (France) that is publicly pro-freedom of speech.

kypro 3y ago

> One problem might be that we teach everyone about the dangers of fanatical explosive totalitarian movements like Hitlerism and Stalinism but not enough about “softer” creeping authoritarianism that is less easy to identify or oppose. Both are a risk but the strong man cult type is easier to mobilize people against. This is entirely the problem in my opinion. When you talk to Europeans you'll notice they tend to be very concerned about the dangers of things like extremism and hate speech, but not at all about state authoritarianism. But why is that? I'd argue that today your life is much more likely to be ruined because you hold the wrong social opinions or political views rather than your neighbour denying the holocaust[1]. And there is an ugly righteousness developing here too. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to defend people's right to dislike Islam or be homophobic, for example. A lot of Europeans genuinely believe these views are so evil that people deserve to be punished for holding them. But how can I really blame them? The media here constantly reminds us about the dangers of terrorist and and extremism. It constantly tells us how evil it is to hold certain opinions. And most people don't reason about this stuff from first principles. They just assume that the extremism is a threat so end up contributing to the problem by demanding the state does more to suppress our freedoms. It's difficult to see this getting better and if it did it would be because we put equal effort into warning about creeping authoritarianism. Obviously this isn't going to happen, but that is the solution. [1] I'll note that I'm referring explicitly to the illegality of holocaust denialism here. I'm not talking about people who deny the holocaust and are planning to commit mass murder. The difference here is someone who holds unfavourable views vs someone who's genuinely a danger to the public. --- Legal note: I do not support any hateful ideologies, but I do believe people should be free to express views which may be considered hateful. My comments are not intended to undermine how awful holocaust denialism is in any way.

hef19898 3y ago
Your neighbor denying the holocaist, sticking with your example, are the people that would allow a government to become oppressive.
api 3y ago
Here’s an analogy: Populist demagogues becoming dictators or the rise of fanatical cult ideologies are like hurricanes and tornadoes. They can start quickly, hit hard, and do a ton of damage. They are also easy to spot and there are known ways to respond to them. Creeping bureaucratic authoritarianism and the slow erosion of democracy is like climate change. It ebbs and flows but mostly flows, but the trend is slow and on any given day it feels like everything is fine. By the time it gets bad enough to really hurt your democratic institutions are pretty far gone and the situation may not be easily recoverable. They’re also not mutually exclusive problems. As climate change progresses you can get more and stronger hurricanes. In the same way the erosion of democracy and the growth of unchecked autocracy creates a situation that is ripe for the rise of demagogues.