9 ms·

The Banality of Genius: Notes on Peter Jackson's Get Back (2022)

154 points by wallflower 3y ago

noman-land 3y ago
I loved this series a lot. Watching these classic songs just tumble out of them was very magical and electric.
- ghaff 3y ago
  To be honest, I expected to like it more than I did. It just felt like a bit much after a while. I'll give the 2nd and 3rd episodes another go at some point.
  - Cockbrand 3y ago
    It's really long, and at a few points (well, stretches) quite boring. But still very interesting and well made. It's just crazy to see how genius pours out of these lads, and how Paul tries to keep everything together and (spoiler alert?) finally succeeds. Also, the dynamics between the individual members, and with Yoko being the de-facto fifth member (in John's eyes) or just quite a distraction for John and generally nuisance (in the other's eyes) are very interesting to witness.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I agree with all that and I expect I'll get around to watching the rest. I just felt it could have been stronger as a more tightly cut film.
      - conradfr 3y ago
        I think they could have made different versions because I know some Beatles maniacs that would have watched the unedited footage on a loop.
  - criddell 3y ago
    The way Jackson structured it (day-by-day) made it very amenable to watching a single episode over many days. My wife and I would watch a day or two per night and it took us a couple of weeks to watch the whole series.
  - noman-land 3y ago
    I try not to let my expectations influence how I interpret a work. I don't think it's fair to the work. Maybe it's because I've loved the Beatles for a long time but I found every second of that film to be completely gripping. I could have watched another 8 hours. The banality is what made it so fascinating to me. How classic songs, that have been drilled into my mind and into the fabric of culture for decades were just bits and pieces floating in the minds of a small collection of people, decisions and circumstances. They just bounce around and snowball until something comes out. The end result sounds so utterly perfect that it's jarring and exhilarating to see some bored lads shooting the shit and suddenly a masterpiece just falls out of nowhere. Then they just go home and eat dinner. What the fuck.
    - tomcam 3y ago
      I couldn’t have said it better. And we also have to acknowledge the incredible, ego-free work Peter Jackson did because the original films and sound are pretty heinous.
    - jeromegv 3y ago
      Yep. They come to work in the morning. Go to lunch. Play a bit more. Go home for dinner. It’s not 9-5 but it feels weirdly banal. Sure some of them are likely on drugs or showed up too late from a hangover. But it’s just so.. banal
  - kahirsch 3y ago
    The 3rd part is a lot of fun. Billy Preston shows up and they start having a really good time in the studio. Then they decide to give a concert on the roof and the staff work to stall the police.
- basisword 3y ago
  The thing I loved about it was that it was no different than any other band practice or rehearsal or writing session. The process is pretty much the same from the unknown teen getting started, right up to the mega-famous Beatles.
- ssklash 3y ago
  This was my favorite part, the banality of it. The music they made was so transcendent and impactful, it feels as if it must have been made differently by some super-human geniuses. But all they really did was just kinda screw around until something they liked came out, and then they built on it. I'll never be a Beatle, but it does feel validating that I can at least attempt to write music in exactly the same way they did, even if the results won't be quite as good.
  - te_chris 3y ago
    Taste is the secret in most good art: what to put in and leave out.
    - emmelaich 3y ago
      Yes, and this stood out to me -- "They were much better at saying what they didn’t want to do than at making sensible plans for what they did want to do." To me, choosing what not to do when you have ideas pouring out all the time is vital.
      - beautron 3y ago
        This is a neat perspective. I think it can help for avoiding creator's block (more commonly known as "writer's block," but I'm being more general here). It's easy to avoid getting started because you don't think you have a good enough idea yet. But when the thinking gets long, try just diving in and making something. Now you have something to react to, and you can often quickly identify things you don't like about it. Then you think of ways to avoid these things you don't like, and dive back in to make the next something. Gradually you fill in the negative space, and after enough iterations are left with something good.
      - bloomingeek 3y ago
        This has always been my mindset on most areas of my life. When an opportunity in life comes into view, I always focus on what could be a negative result. My friends say that's pessimism, I say it's trying to avoid some types of potential reality. It has served me well for the most part.
- lovemenot 3y ago
  What I loved is the dramatic irony. Everyone who watches it already knows, note for note, the finished song being crafted. Only they don't. We get to watch the song's creators stumbling towards the light. We feel satisfaction as they approach the "true" sound. As in a pantomime ("it's behind you!"), John says "attracts me like a cauliflower", and we all silently shout "like no other lover"
  - bitwize 3y ago
    Silly ideas can sometimes yield musical dividends. Jack Harkness's theme from Torchwood has a distinct stuttering, marching rhythm; turns out the composer originally scored it for a scene where Jack crashed through a barn wall on a tractor to catch some bad guys and he set the tune to the rhythm of the phrase "here he comes on a ruddy great tractor".
  - noman-land 3y ago
    I found their approach to writing lyrics extremely interesting. They're not singing words in the beginning, just syllables and "word shapes". The music is dictating what the words should sound like, and they fill in the meanings behind the word sounds retroactively over time. The lyrics are being molded like a lump of clay where you don't know what you're going to end up with when you first start. Just pushing around clay until it looks nice. Hey, that kinda looks like a nose.
indigoabstract 3y ago
I liked the quote mentioned about the Beatles being "proof of the existence of God": "It transcends everything. It’s much bigger than four kids from Liverpool. For me the Beatles are proof of the existence of God. It’s so good and so far beyond everyone else that it’s not them." I hadn't heard that one before. I think what the Beatles did can be called "riding the wave of fortune" or "being on a roll", but they somehow did it year after year instead of just a few times, like most people manage to.
- criddell 3y ago
  > year after year I was surprised the first time I heard they recorded as a band for only 7 years. Their last album is so different from their first album, I find it astounding to think about what they accomplished and how much they grew in that time.
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    Their last albums are not only different from their first album, they are different from their mid period. Personally, my interest wanes after Magical Mystery Tour because one can’t hear the drugs any more, and it was the psychedelic element which made that, Revolver and Sgt. Pepper so great for my ears.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - tomcam 3y ago
    And they had been together as a band for about seven years before they recorded.
- ElFitz 3y ago
  > but they somehow did it year after year instead of just a few times And without ever learning to read or write sheet music. It’s just trivia, but it never ceases to amaze me.
  - 3y ago
acl777 3y ago
https://archive.ph/nHh9U https://archive.ph/nHh9U
dang 3y ago
Discussed at the time (of the article): The Banality of Genius: Notes on Peter Jackson's Get Back - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30113080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30113080 - Jan 2022 (145 comments)
cr4zy 3y ago
Another great session of George and John recording Oh My Love [1] shows what I think of as embracing rough but promising ideas along with balanities like tuning guitars, learning chords, etc... The Beatles engaged in this process much more than most musicians, despite it meaning most the stuff they played sounds relatively bad compared to playing tunes they'd practiced a bunch before. Is this due to work ethic or some love of creation? Idk, but it is fascinating to see the sausage get made. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yksV7YVuqdg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yksV7YVuqdg
topper-123 3y ago
The Let it be album is also from this session, thought Abbey road was the album that was released by the Beatles. Let it be was released later (after the band broke up) as a money grab from the studio without autorization from the Beatles (except maybe Lennon). Paul really disliked it because of the bad mixing and post-production applied by Phil Specter. Some years ago they re-released Let it be, renamed as Let it be Naked. This time it was remixed and authorized by the remaining Beatles and ... it's really good. Much simpler, much clearer and without the soul-less violin sounds from Phil Specter. I can recommend giving it a listen and compare it to the original Let it be album.
- elSidCampeador 3y ago
  I much prefer the Let It Be...Naked album to the original Let It Be, to the point where I haven't heard the songs from the latter in a long time. In my head at least, the former album is the definitive one.
  - zeroonetwothree 3y ago
    I like the original more. Maybe just because I got used to it. Mere familiarity effect dominates music.
- elondaits 3y ago
  * Phil Spector.
hettygreen 3y ago
For those that are interested in seeing artists conjure up hit songs, check out the documentary "Billie Eilish: The World's A Little Blurry". There are some scenes showing Billie and her brother sitting on a bed in their parents' house coming up with lyrics and melodies for songs that would go on to sell millions, win grammys and totally change their lives. I'm a huge beatles fan, and while Get Back shows sparks of creativity - for the most part it, it shows a few childish rich dudes high as all hell dicking around in front of cameras in a super-weird situation that they put themselves in trying to document themselves writing an album. The World's A Little Blurry on the other hand shows two siblings battling through some tough shit and turning it into gold on a shoestring recording budget.
- maxverse 3y ago
  I'm not very familiar with Billie Eilish's music, but any interview I've seen her brother Finneas has been really great. Seems like a cool dude and a great musician.
- strunz 3y ago
  You may want to read the article you're commenting on, which posits the very opposite of what you're contending here
- 6stringronin 3y ago
  Meh, the hardest part I'd the mixing and mastering and getting it heard. They don't seem to do that themselves
- empath75 3y ago
  I like Billie Eilish's music and think her brother is a decent producer, but you can't really compare the two in terms of song writing. I don't think there's a single Billie Eilish song that people are going to remember in five years, let alone after 50 years. I did enjoy this video about how they made bad guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpx2-EMfdbg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpx2-EMfdbg But there are literally _thousands_ of videos of producers making songs on youtube now.
  - 3y ago
xpe 3y ago
Independent of the subject matter, the writing is superb. It doesn’t need fancy words because it speaks clearly.
- dmbche 3y ago
  Agree - I'm not a beatles fan but this article was riveting
michael1999 3y ago
There was nothing banal about it — more illuminating, and authorial. The editing was almost vicious towards Yoko in the the first episode, but perhaps that was just her. And the queer energy all over, MLH and Preston captivated by John, John enjoying the attention and flirting just enough to encourage it. The vanity and conflict. Jackson has a sharp eye and found the magic.
WalterBright 3y ago
I'm curious what Ringo & Paul's comments on the movie would be.
PorterBHall 3y ago
Yoko Ono is often blamed for breakup the Beatles, but watching Get Back, it seems clear to me that the person who really broke up the Beatles was Brian Epstein. His death — and their grief — hangs over this documentary, especially in the way that McCartney tries to be both band mate and task master in keeping the group together. I have always favored John over Paul, but this made me appreciate Paul despite his faults.

154 points by wallflower 3y ago

noman-land 3y ago

I loved this series a lot. Watching these classic songs just tumble out of them was very magical and electric.

ghaff 3y ago
To be honest, I expected to like it more than I did. It just felt like a bit much after a while. I'll give the 2nd and 3rd episodes another go at some point.
- Cockbrand 3y ago
  It's really long, and at a few points (well, stretches) quite boring. But still very interesting and well made. It's just crazy to see how genius pours out of these lads, and how Paul tries to keep everything together and (spoiler alert?) finally succeeds. Also, the dynamics between the individual members, and with Yoko being the de-facto fifth member (in John's eyes) or just quite a distraction for John and generally nuisance (in the other's eyes) are very interesting to witness.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    I agree with all that and I expect I'll get around to watching the rest. I just felt it could have been stronger as a more tightly cut film.
    - conradfr 3y ago
      I think they could have made different versions because I know some Beatles maniacs that would have watched the unedited footage on a loop.
- criddell 3y ago
  The way Jackson structured it (day-by-day) made it very amenable to watching a single episode over many days. My wife and I would watch a day or two per night and it took us a couple of weeks to watch the whole series.
- noman-land 3y ago
  I try not to let my expectations influence how I interpret a work. I don't think it's fair to the work. Maybe it's because I've loved the Beatles for a long time but I found every second of that film to be completely gripping. I could have watched another 8 hours. The banality is what made it so fascinating to me. How classic songs, that have been drilled into my mind and into the fabric of culture for decades were just bits and pieces floating in the minds of a small collection of people, decisions and circumstances. They just bounce around and snowball until something comes out. The end result sounds so utterly perfect that it's jarring and exhilarating to see some bored lads shooting the shit and suddenly a masterpiece just falls out of nowhere. Then they just go home and eat dinner. What the fuck.
  - tomcam 3y ago
    I couldn’t have said it better. And we also have to acknowledge the incredible, ego-free work Peter Jackson did because the original films and sound are pretty heinous.
  - jeromegv 3y ago
    Yep. They come to work in the morning. Go to lunch. Play a bit more. Go home for dinner. It’s not 9-5 but it feels weirdly banal. Sure some of them are likely on drugs or showed up too late from a hangover. But it’s just so.. banal
- kahirsch 3y ago
  The 3rd part is a lot of fun. Billy Preston shows up and they start having a really good time in the studio. Then they decide to give a concert on the roof and the staff work to stall the police.
basisword 3y ago
The thing I loved about it was that it was no different than any other band practice or rehearsal or writing session. The process is pretty much the same from the unknown teen getting started, right up to the mega-famous Beatles.
ssklash 3y ago
This was my favorite part, the banality of it. The music they made was so transcendent and impactful, it feels as if it must have been made differently by some super-human geniuses. But all they really did was just kinda screw around until something they liked came out, and then they built on it. I'll never be a Beatle, but it does feel validating that I can at least attempt to write music in exactly the same way they did, even if the results won't be quite as good.
- te_chris 3y ago
  Taste is the secret in most good art: what to put in and leave out.
  - emmelaich 3y ago
    Yes, and this stood out to me -- "They were much better at saying what they didn’t want to do than at making sensible plans for what they did want to do." To me, choosing what not to do when you have ideas pouring out all the time is vital.
    - beautron 3y ago
      This is a neat perspective. I think it can help for avoiding creator's block (more commonly known as "writer's block," but I'm being more general here). It's easy to avoid getting started because you don't think you have a good enough idea yet. But when the thinking gets long, try just diving in and making something. Now you have something to react to, and you can often quickly identify things you don't like about it. Then you think of ways to avoid these things you don't like, and dive back in to make the next something. Gradually you fill in the negative space, and after enough iterations are left with something good.
    - bloomingeek 3y ago
      This has always been my mindset on most areas of my life. When an opportunity in life comes into view, I always focus on what could be a negative result. My friends say that's pessimism, I say it's trying to avoid some types of potential reality. It has served me well for the most part.
lovemenot 3y ago
What I loved is the dramatic irony. Everyone who watches it already knows, note for note, the finished song being crafted. Only they don't. We get to watch the song's creators stumbling towards the light. We feel satisfaction as they approach the "true" sound. As in a pantomime ("it's behind you!"), John says "attracts me like a cauliflower", and we all silently shout "like no other lover"
- bitwize 3y ago
  Silly ideas can sometimes yield musical dividends. Jack Harkness's theme from Torchwood has a distinct stuttering, marching rhythm; turns out the composer originally scored it for a scene where Jack crashed through a barn wall on a tractor to catch some bad guys and he set the tune to the rhythm of the phrase "here he comes on a ruddy great tractor".
- noman-land 3y ago
  I found their approach to writing lyrics extremely interesting. They're not singing words in the beginning, just syllables and "word shapes". The music is dictating what the words should sound like, and they fill in the meanings behind the word sounds retroactively over time. The lyrics are being molded like a lump of clay where you don't know what you're going to end up with when you first start. Just pushing around clay until it looks nice. Hey, that kinda looks like a nose.

indigoabstract 3y ago

I liked the quote mentioned about the Beatles being "proof of the existence of God": "It transcends everything. It’s much bigger than four kids from Liverpool. For me the Beatles are proof of the existence of God. It’s so good and so far beyond everyone else that it’s not them." I hadn't heard that one before. I think what the Beatles did can be called "riding the wave of fortune" or "being on a roll", but they somehow did it year after year instead of just a few times, like most people manage to.

criddell 3y ago
> year after year I was surprised the first time I heard they recorded as a band for only 7 years. Their last album is so different from their first album, I find it astounding to think about what they accomplished and how much they grew in that time.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  Their last albums are not only different from their first album, they are different from their mid period. Personally, my interest wanes after Magical Mystery Tour because one can’t hear the drugs any more, and it was the psychedelic element which made that, Revolver and Sgt. Pepper so great for my ears.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- tomcam 3y ago
  And they had been together as a band for about seven years before they recorded.
ElFitz 3y ago
> but they somehow did it year after year instead of just a few times And without ever learning to read or write sheet music. It’s just trivia, but it never ceases to amaze me.
- 3y ago

acl777 3y ago

https://archive.ph/nHh9U https://archive.ph/nHh9U

dang 3y ago

Discussed at the time (of the article): The Banality of Genius: Notes on Peter Jackson's Get Back - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30113080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30113080 - Jan 2022 (145 comments)

cr4zy 3y ago

Another great session of George and John recording Oh My Love [1] shows what I think of as embracing rough but promising ideas along with balanities like tuning guitars, learning chords, etc... The Beatles engaged in this process much more than most musicians, despite it meaning most the stuff they played sounds relatively bad compared to playing tunes they'd practiced a bunch before. Is this due to work ethic or some love of creation? Idk, but it is fascinating to see the sausage get made. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yksV7YVuqdg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yksV7YVuqdg

topper-123 3y ago

The Let it be album is also from this session, thought Abbey road was the album that was released by the Beatles. Let it be was released later (after the band broke up) as a money grab from the studio without autorization from the Beatles (except maybe Lennon). Paul really disliked it because of the bad mixing and post-production applied by Phil Specter. Some years ago they re-released Let it be, renamed as Let it be Naked. This time it was remixed and authorized by the remaining Beatles and ... it's really good. Much simpler, much clearer and without the soul-less violin sounds from Phil Specter. I can recommend giving it a listen and compare it to the original Let it be album.

elSidCampeador 3y ago
I much prefer the Let It Be...Naked album to the original Let It Be, to the point where I haven't heard the songs from the latter in a long time. In my head at least, the former album is the definitive one.
- zeroonetwothree 3y ago
  I like the original more. Maybe just because I got used to it. Mere familiarity effect dominates music.
elondaits 3y ago
* Phil Spector.

hettygreen 3y ago

For those that are interested in seeing artists conjure up hit songs, check out the documentary "Billie Eilish: The World's A Little Blurry". There are some scenes showing Billie and her brother sitting on a bed in their parents' house coming up with lyrics and melodies for songs that would go on to sell millions, win grammys and totally change their lives. I'm a huge beatles fan, and while Get Back shows sparks of creativity - for the most part it, it shows a few childish rich dudes high as all hell dicking around in front of cameras in a super-weird situation that they put themselves in trying to document themselves writing an album. The World's A Little Blurry on the other hand shows two siblings battling through some tough shit and turning it into gold on a shoestring recording budget.

maxverse 3y ago
I'm not very familiar with Billie Eilish's music, but any interview I've seen her brother Finneas has been really great. Seems like a cool dude and a great musician.
strunz 3y ago
You may want to read the article you're commenting on, which posits the very opposite of what you're contending here
6stringronin 3y ago
Meh, the hardest part I'd the mixing and mastering and getting it heard. They don't seem to do that themselves
empath75 3y ago
I like Billie Eilish's music and think her brother is a decent producer, but you can't really compare the two in terms of song writing. I don't think there's a single Billie Eilish song that people are going to remember in five years, let alone after 50 years. I did enjoy this video about how they made bad guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpx2-EMfdbg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpx2-EMfdbg But there are literally _thousands_ of videos of producers making songs on youtube now.
- 3y ago

xpe 3y ago

Independent of the subject matter, the writing is superb. It doesn’t need fancy words because it speaks clearly.

dmbche 3y ago
Agree - I'm not a beatles fan but this article was riveting

michael1999 3y ago

There was nothing banal about it — more illuminating, and authorial. The editing was almost vicious towards Yoko in the the first episode, but perhaps that was just her. And the queer energy all over, MLH and Preston captivated by John, John enjoying the attention and flirting just enough to encourage it. The vanity and conflict. Jackson has a sharp eye and found the magic.

WalterBright 3y ago

I'm curious what Ringo & Paul's comments on the movie would be.

PorterBHall 3y ago

Yoko Ono is often blamed for breakup the Beatles, but watching Get Back, it seems clear to me that the person who really broke up the Beatles was Brian Epstein. His death — and their grief — hangs over this documentary, especially in the way that McCartney tries to be both band mate and task master in keeping the group together. I have always favored John over Paul, but this made me appreciate Paul despite his faults.