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Another sobering result for the fitness industry, that convinces 30 year old men to be on TRT.

reedf1 3y ago
Convincing men at basically peak testosterone production to permanently impair their natural ability to produce it. It's awful. Not to mention the side effects of taking exogenous hormones e.g. damage to your liver...
- wredue 3y ago
  I see a study suggesting that, in hypogonadal men (important), TTh or TRT seems to improve their liver.
- tayo42 3y ago
  Peak? We're talking about 30 year olds. For some it's not really convincing. They look at it like doctor perscribed steroids.
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- diath 3y ago
  This seems to be contradicting your claim: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8451678/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8451678/
  - civilitty 3y ago
    Did you read the study? Or even the first line of the abstract? “Hypogonadal men with hepatic steatosis” is literally in the first sentence. It’s a study on men with low testosterone and fatty liver disease. They already have damaged livers.
    - diath 3y ago
      If the presence of testosterone can improve the function of damaged liver, there's no reason to think that a healthy liver would get damaged by it. I can't even think of any mechanism that would be involved.
      - eimrine 3y ago
        dosis sola facit venenum? Sorry I can not say anything smarter because I can not compare the doses, but maybe someone else will compare.
Aurornis 3y ago
TRT is great for people who have true hypogonadism that can’t be fixed by other means. I had a friend growing up whose testosterone was under 100ng/dL no matter what he tried with his doctor. Finally got TRT and felt normal again. However, after the honeymoon period the experience made him realize that not everything is explained and fixed by testosterone. He still had some mental health issues, he still had to work for gains at the gym, wasn’t suddenly full of boundless motivation. All this despite being put toward the upper end of the range for a long time. This seems to be playing out with a lot of young people going to TRT clinics: The TRT clinics are prescription writing factories that will find an excuse to give almost anyone TRT. They make claims that the normal ranges are wrong and the only correct result is to be at the top of, or above, the reference range. They start people on insane beginning doses like 250mg/week because it gives them a rush to feel like it’s “working”, especially before their natural production shuts down. The clinics also try to lock people into getting their prescriptions from the clinic in a subscription model. They basically get people hooked, literally dependent on testosterone because their endogenous production has shut down, and then require them to order the testosterone through their pharmacy to continue receiving the prescriptions. If they go to a family doctor, the family doctor will probably decline to continue writing such high dose prescriptions because high doses generate significant side effects, so the person returns to the TRT clinic. It’s really bad out there. I think we’re headed for tighter regulation of these clinics soon, or at least I hope so. Every time I listen to the radio I get several ads for different clinics every hour promising men they will lose weight, be better in bed, have more energy, conquer the world.
- Auracle 3y ago
  I had low testosterone due to a brain injury, and going on TRT was absolutely life changing. I do wonder if it could be largely beneficial for older men in the same way hormone replacement therapy for post menopausal women is. That said, permanently messing with your hormones as a younger person for no good reason is insane and I would try to talk anyone I knew out of it. Fun fact: I had an endocrinologist at the University of Minnesota medical clinic tell me that going on TRT wouldn’t affect my fertility. Cue IVF 8 years later…
  - 3y ago
gonzo41 3y ago
Never mess with the endocrine system! the real killer for mens T levels, ie the perception of low T, is sitting around all day. I'm convinced that most people, men and women, feel terrible because they simply don't do nearly enough physical activity day to day. 20 hours of screens a day is not normal.

Convincing men at basically peak testosterone production to permanently impair their natural ability to produce it. It's awful. Not to mention the side effects of taking exogenous hormones e.g. damage to your liver...

wredue 3y ago
I see a study suggesting that, in hypogonadal men (important), TTh or TRT seems to improve their liver.
tayo42 3y ago
Peak? We're talking about 30 year olds. For some it's not really convincing. They look at it like doctor perscribed steroids.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
diath 3y ago
This seems to be contradicting your claim: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8451678/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8451678/
- civilitty 3y ago
  Did you read the study? Or even the first line of the abstract? “Hypogonadal men with hepatic steatosis” is literally in the first sentence. It’s a study on men with low testosterone and fatty liver disease. They already have damaged livers.
  - diath 3y ago
    If the presence of testosterone can improve the function of damaged liver, there's no reason to think that a healthy liver would get damaged by it. I can't even think of any mechanism that would be involved.
    - eimrine 3y ago
      dosis sola facit venenum? Sorry I can not say anything smarter because I can not compare the doses, but maybe someone else will compare.

Aurornis 3y ago

TRT is great for people who have true hypogonadism that can’t be fixed by other means. I had a friend growing up whose testosterone was under 100ng/dL no matter what he tried with his doctor. Finally got TRT and felt normal again. However, after the honeymoon period the experience made him realize that not everything is explained and fixed by testosterone. He still had some mental health issues, he still had to work for gains at the gym, wasn’t suddenly full of boundless motivation. All this despite being put toward the upper end of the range for a long time. This seems to be playing out with a lot of young people going to TRT clinics: The TRT clinics are prescription writing factories that will find an excuse to give almost anyone TRT. They make claims that the normal ranges are wrong and the only correct result is to be at the top of, or above, the reference range. They start people on insane beginning doses like 250mg/week because it gives them a rush to feel like it’s “working”, especially before their natural production shuts down. The clinics also try to lock people into getting their prescriptions from the clinic in a subscription model. They basically get people hooked, literally dependent on testosterone because their endogenous production has shut down, and then require them to order the testosterone through their pharmacy to continue receiving the prescriptions. If they go to a family doctor, the family doctor will probably decline to continue writing such high dose prescriptions because high doses generate significant side effects, so the person returns to the TRT clinic. It’s really bad out there. I think we’re headed for tighter regulation of these clinics soon, or at least I hope so. Every time I listen to the radio I get several ads for different clinics every hour promising men they will lose weight, be better in bed, have more energy, conquer the world.

Auracle 3y ago
I had low testosterone due to a brain injury, and going on TRT was absolutely life changing. I do wonder if it could be largely beneficial for older men in the same way hormone replacement therapy for post menopausal women is. That said, permanently messing with your hormones as a younger person for no good reason is insane and I would try to talk anyone I knew out of it. Fun fact: I had an endocrinologist at the University of Minnesota medical clinic tell me that going on TRT wouldn’t affect my fertility. Cue IVF 8 years later…
- 3y ago

gonzo41 3y ago

Never mess with the endocrine system! the real killer for mens T levels, ie the perception of low T, is sitting around all day. I'm convinced that most people, men and women, feel terrible because they simply don't do nearly enough physical activity day to day. 20 hours of screens a day is not normal.