4 ms·

Yes, and this is one of the main problems with the "someone would have talked" objection. There are often witnesses or leakers, including to events like the JFK

Yes, and this is one of the main problems with the "someone would have talked" objection. There are often witnesses or leakers, including to events like the JFK assassination, but as long as they can be kept out of the public consciousness or adequately smeared as cranks, it's as if the secret was kept regardless.

redeeman 3y ago
its funny how governments ALWAYS lies about wars they have been involved with, and people by and large considers this to be true. but currently when there are wars, we are to trust them 100%
nitwit005 3y ago
The New York Times published an article reporting Soviet charges that the United States was behind the coup. It was just genuinely not a secret.
- t-3 3y ago
  The same or similar can be said about pretty much any "conspiracy theory", from totally insane ancient alien stuff to mundane corruption and foul play.
orwin 3y ago
I'm sorry, but this coup is the only "conspiracy theory" where i got second-hand versions of actual witnesses (actually, participants). There were journalists that wrote on that in France in the 60s (proamerican anticommunist, hardline right wing, so when he wrote "the US did it because Mossadegh was a commie", i mean, everybody should believe it). We had actual political party that wrote that the US did it in their manifesto in the 70s, and taught that to their members in their "modern history" lessons (my father tended to those instead of going to catechism/sunday school). You had public figures in Iran who said "The US paid us". It was quite clear the US did it until in the 00s a top US official said "yeah, we did it, it was cheap". JFK assassination is weird, because only 3 people needed to be involved, so it might be hard to find actual participants, but most conspiracy theories needs a lot more (anywhere from dozens to thousands), and those, i wouldn't trust no one serious talked. When Seymour Hersh managed to find proofs on CIA most secret operation (MKUltra, which is way worse imho than lying about getting on the moon or whatever), its hard to keep that objection.
- almatabata 3y ago
  > most conspiracy theories needs a lot more (anywhere from dozens to thousands), and those, i wouldn't trust no one serious talked. The CIA tried to deleting all evidence of the mkultra project in 1973. They missed a few documents related to the funding that allowed the commission to actually find evidence for it. Had they succeeded you would never have had enough evidence to prove it. You would have had ex-cia members involved in drug experiments. Would the general public have trusted them? If a guy with drug problems claimed the government had experimented on him, who would have believed him? How many projects did they successfully erase all proof of?
  - greiskul 3y ago
    Yup. Inteligence agencies are something that when you start doing serious research on, you end up being very paranoid. Cause the most sucessful operations leave no traces, and if the people responsible don't happen to leave behind documents about it that happened to be disclosed later, it is very possible for everybody, even the country responsible for it, to never learn the truth.

redeeman 3y ago

its funny how governments ALWAYS lies about wars they have been involved with, and people by and large considers this to be true. but currently when there are wars, we are to trust them 100%

nitwit005 3y ago

The New York Times published an article reporting Soviet charges that the United States was behind the coup. It was just genuinely not a secret.

t-3 3y ago
The same or similar can be said about pretty much any "conspiracy theory", from totally insane ancient alien stuff to mundane corruption and foul play.

orwin 3y ago

I'm sorry, but this coup is the only "conspiracy theory" where i got second-hand versions of actual witnesses (actually, participants). There were journalists that wrote on that in France in the 60s (proamerican anticommunist, hardline right wing, so when he wrote "the US did it because Mossadegh was a commie", i mean, everybody should believe it). We had actual political party that wrote that the US did it in their manifesto in the 70s, and taught that to their members in their "modern history" lessons (my father tended to those instead of going to catechism/sunday school). You had public figures in Iran who said "The US paid us". It was quite clear the US did it until in the 00s a top US official said "yeah, we did it, it was cheap". JFK assassination is weird, because only 3 people needed to be involved, so it might be hard to find actual participants, but most conspiracy theories needs a lot more (anywhere from dozens to thousands), and those, i wouldn't trust no one serious talked. When Seymour Hersh managed to find proofs on CIA most secret operation (MKUltra, which is way worse imho than lying about getting on the moon or whatever), its hard to keep that objection.

almatabata 3y ago
> most conspiracy theories needs a lot more (anywhere from dozens to thousands), and those, i wouldn't trust no one serious talked. The CIA tried to deleting all evidence of the mkultra project in 1973. They missed a few documents related to the funding that allowed the commission to actually find evidence for it. Had they succeeded you would never have had enough evidence to prove it. You would have had ex-cia members involved in drug experiments. Would the general public have trusted them? If a guy with drug problems claimed the government had experimented on him, who would have believed him? How many projects did they successfully erase all proof of?
- greiskul 3y ago
  Yup. Inteligence agencies are something that when you start doing serious research on, you end up being very paranoid. Cause the most sucessful operations leave no traces, and if the people responsible don't happen to leave behind documents about it that happened to be disclosed later, it is very possible for everybody, even the country responsible for it, to never learn the truth.