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It's completely possible to build an EV that isn't connected. The idea that electric power means networked spying is an invented fiction. Due to the privacy-con

• sysadm1n 3y ago
  > It's completely possible to build an EV that isn't connected sudo ifconfig eth1 down
  • speed_spread 3y ago
    Rooting your car might very well void the warranty.
    • sircastor 3y ago
      I worked for an automotive company for a while and I recall a meeting wherein were learned about compliance, fault, maintaining records, etc. One thing I learned is that you do not know how far lawyers will go to reach a verdict or a settlement. And if you're reading this right now, I will tell you do not know how far a lawyer and their clients will go to reach a settlement. And that's lawyers on both sides of any argument. If you ever have an opportunity to attend a training/info seminar put on by legal, I promise you it is way more interesting than it sounds on the face of it.
      • hutzlibu 3y ago
        "And if you're reading this right now, I will tell you do not know how far a lawyer and their clients will go to reach a settlement" It always depends on how much money is at stake. Usually a lot, when it is about setting a precedent.
    • driverdan 3y ago
      In the US it would not void your warranty.
    • squarefoot 3y ago
      I wouldn't even try to root it; all I'd ask for is to be able to reach the antenna plug and stick in there a dummy load.
• itslennysfault 3y ago
  Not sure why you are specifically calling out EVs. I think all new cars (gas or electric) have internet connectivity and send all sorts of data home.
  • piperswe 3y ago
    Yep, I can't think of any automakers that have different connectivity in their EVs than their ICEs.
  • mixmastamyk 3y ago
    It was pioneered there. Not been able to buy a modern EV without it. Ostensibly for range anxiety early on, kept for the sweet revenue. The GM EV1 and Tesla roadster? were probably the last without it.
    • sandworm101 3y ago
      >> Ostensibly for range anxiety ... The most range-anxious person I ever saw was a tesla driver at a rest stop. A traffic accident had put us on a 150km detour though a different mountain valley, one without cellphone connectivity. He was at the first rest stop trying to figure out whether to push on or attempt to turn around and go home. He didn't have the range to go back, and couldn't figure out of there were any chargers 115km forwards at the next town. No cellphone coverage had turned him into a seething ball of indecision.
      • CraigJPerry 3y ago
        Cars have been running out of gas for 100 years, give or take. To refill an electric car you can usually just pull it with a tow rope for a few miles to recharge. Doesn’t really seem like a seismic shift in paradigm to be honest. Certainly not to justify a different level of range anxiety than a gas car running a bit low.
        • cuu508 3y ago
          Hos much usable range do you get after pulling for a few miles?
• GuB-42 3y ago
  See the Dacia Spring, not only it is an EV for about $20k, but if you look at the interior, you don't even realize it's electric. It is all knobs and dials, some models are equipped with a screen and GPS for navigation, but you won't get more than that in term of connectivity.
  • tremon 3y ago
    That sounds great, but I'm a bit sad that it seems to come only in SUV form factor. Do you happen to know if they have anything in less obnoxious sizes?
    • lnsru 3y ago
      It’s not a SUV. It’s small funny car. With catastrophic crash test result. On the pictures is looks indeed like a normal SUV, but it is not. Crash test: https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/dacia/spring/44197 https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/dacia/spring/44197
    • bonzini 3y ago
      Spring owner here. It's a cool little car. The main disadvantage is that AC recharging is extremely slow (6.6 kW three phase) because they skimped on battery cooling. And opening/closing the doors feels more like a 1990 Fiat Panda. It obviously doesn't go fast on the highway but in the city it's great, the electric motor gives it surprising acceleration for a 33 kW engine. It's 3.70 meters long, definitely not an SUV. It's not only the smallest EV (the Volkswagen e-UP is unobtainable at least in Italy) but one of the smallest cars in general.
    • avhon1 3y ago
      Here's an article with a photograph showing the Dacia Spring next to a person. Definitely more of a Pontiac Vibe than an SUV. https://www.largus.fr/actualite-automobile/dacia-spring-presque-a-bord-de-la-citadine-electrique-a-10-000-e-10257396.html https://www.largus.fr/actualite-automobile/dacia-spring-pres...
    • eweise 3y ago
      Looks like a hatchback to me.
• throw0101b 3y ago
  Up to a certain point. From 2015, "New cars in Europe could soon automatically call police when you crash": * https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/new-cars-in-europe-could-soon-automatically-call-police-when-you-crash https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/new-cars-in-europe-could-s...
  • hutzlibu 3y ago
    But this is something very different, from sending all the data from all the sensors (optionally including interior cameras) all the time.
  • mdp2021 3y ago
    According to the regulation, the eCall is only activated as the emergency is triggered (as the airbags trigger). According to what you can expect, it is hard to know if that is the way the manufacturers implemented it.
• nradov 3y ago
  In general most auto manufacturers are trying to shift their revenue model from periodic auto and parts sales to monthly subscription fees. This isn't linked to EVs. They're trying to force consumers into subscriptions for ICE vehicles as well. This is obviously a negative for consumers, but subscription revenue is seen by Wall Street as more stable and predictable thus it supports higher stock market valuations and better bond credit ratings.
  • ElectricalUnion 3y ago
    A world based on planned obsolescence is aligned with minimum cost optimized components. It is of no interest for a company to just sell you a thing for cheap, not extract some sort of rent from it and for you to not replace it constantly. In theory a revenue model based on subscription fees is also more aligned with the preservation of the environment and providing the end-user long term quality components, as to extract said rent smoothly and for as long as possible. That of course assuming those subscriptions cover actual vehicle maintenance (somewhat like Managed Services Provider do for, say, printers), why not? Transportation-as-a-Service seems a very reasonable X-as-a-Service model .
• taeric 3y ago
  That isn't the only real problem with trying to have privacy with your car. And, realistically, this isn't new. It was common a long time ago to know that so and so was at someone's house because you saw their car there. Or you saw their car really anywhere else. And with how traceable cars are, the idea that it has to do the data sending for you is a bit outdated. If it was ever accurate.
  • plagiarist 3y ago
    "Your face is pretty distinct so it's not a significant difference if shoe companies install GPS and telemetry to track your every movement."
    • taeric 3y ago
      This seems like a non-sequitur? Cars can't track your every movement. But that phone in your pocket is already doing that. Even if it isn't recorded by the phone, the cell towers that your phone is in constant communication with to actually work can do so. Add in the ridiculously lax methodology we took for bluetooth scanning and connection to work, and you leak more information than your car can do well before the car gets internet connected. Don't get me wrong, I'm a bit concerned about internet connected cars, too. But privacy seems a weak angle there. I'm much more concerned with safety than I am privacy. I fully expect that with all of the license scanners that exist today, if the government wanted to track my movements, that ship sailed a long time ago. I'm not convinced that having the ability to connect to my car from remote is at all safe. Especially to the control facilities.
      • kenhwang 3y ago
        Cars already have a black box like logging system that tracks literally everything the car does continuously in very fine detail. The exact speed and engine load, brake/throttle/steering input, detected tire slip, elevation changes, body roll/pitch/yaw. With that data alone, it's pretty trivial to construct a very exact route, and it's not difficult to figure out where that route fits on a map. Manufacturers already use this data to deny warranty claims. Vehicles having GPS, compass, cell service, bluetooth, and WiFi just makes that tracking trivial. All that's currently missing is the internet connectivity to upload the data in real time instead of the data being pulled at maintenance. Many manufactures also do have background data upload over cell service, even if they don't expose internet features to the vehicle owner.
• sandworm101 3y ago
  It is also Porsche, a company that prides itself on long-term support. Just look at the iconic Porsche tractor commercial. They want their car to work as well tomorrow as it does today. They know that communication standards change. Every "connected" car will, in a decade or two, be a disconnected/bricked car.
  • sircastor 3y ago
    I've got a Nissan LEAF from 2012, and it had a handful of useful features that have disappeared with the loss of the cell network (the original radio was 2G - I didn't upgrade it because they wanted $200, and I think the 3G replacement is also slated to disappear in the near future) While I wish I could remotely warm up the car or set the charging shutoff, it's not a huge loss. Most of the features continue to work perfectly fine.
    • bluGill 3y ago
      It depends on where you live, but in general 3g disappeared before 2g.
  • kenhwang 3y ago
    I really like how they're rolling out updated headunits for all their cars right now. Just about every Porsche from the 1960s to late-2000s can be updated to support a modern Porsche infotainment interface as well as CarPlay/Android Auto.
    • MrFoof 3y ago
      Porsche will sell you a new dashboard for your classic 911 that appears visually identical to the original, but is entirely modern in its construction. Porsche's classic division is really setting the standards for supporting older cars. They realize over time it'll become an increasingly relevant portion of their business and just increase revenue. You can even send a car out to Germany and they'll fully restore it (at quite a price). The big thing though is they simply produce parts for their older cars. Mercedes-Benz is also pretty up there for supporting their classic cars. Aston Martin also increasingly building out their support for their cars. Ferrari and Lamborghini starting to get more into the game, but for those brands it very much remains going to a big few shows in the EU to round up parts at times. Toyota, Nissan, Ford, Chevrolet also have some levels of support.
• mixmastamyk 3y ago
  A privacy setting is not enough, as it can easily be switched back on. And we know that happens all the time because of bugs right? wink No good enough, unless the hardware is not installed.
• JJMcJ 3y ago
  As another proof there were electric cars in the early era around 1900, which clearly did not and could not have phone-home capability.
• uconnectlol 3y ago
  gasoline powered cars are a privacy nightmare too and a terrible "its all going digital" nightmare. the problem here is obviously oppression by the majority
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• zolbrek 3y ago
  I would vote with my wallet in this way too if I could afford a Porsche.