3 ms·
This is basically what I suggested we do a few years ago if Apple added client-side content scanners. Seems all need to here is obtain a finger print of a CSAM
by kypro 3y ago
This is basically what I suggested we do a few years ago if Apple added client-side content scanners.
Seems all need to here is obtain a finger print of a CSAM image then you can reverse engineer a non CSAM image to match that finger print. Distribute this image wide enough and you effectively render these algorithms useless.
Which is a shame because they could be used for good, but it seems kinda obvious this will expand out to scanning for terrorist materials. And again, while I might be in favour of this in theory I am frequently shocked by what fits this definition. In the EU if you promote the wrong ideas or say something "hateful" you can be arrested and sentenced 10+ years in prison.
I think what concerns me is that currently you really only put yourself at risk if you make your wrong think public, e.g tweet about your dislike of Islam on Twitter. These client-side scanners would now enable the authorities to not only go after those who say "racist" things online, but also those who view / save "racist" memes. If I were to guess at a motive, this would be it.
Legal note: I obviously don't agree with hate of any kind, but I do believe in the right to express views which may be considered hateful.
Edit: Fine with the downvotes – but curious what people are disagreeing with? Would you mind leaving a quick comment if you choose to downvote?
- Hizonner 3y ago1. You mixed up generating child porn images that collide with targeted non-child-porn images, in order to taint the database and thereby suppress the target images, with generating non-child-porn images that collide with child porn images, in order to overwhelm the system with false positives. 2. You brought in matters that have nothing to do with hashing or child porn, but tend to generate flame wars. 3. You put sneer quotes around "racist", which makes it sound very much like you don't think any such thing exists.
- kypro 3y agoThank you. 1. Oh okay. I wasn't very clear there. By, "this is basically what I suggested we do a few years ago" I meant that we should look to exploit the limitations of these fingering printing algorithms to render them impractical. But yeah, my suggestion was that we should do the reverse. Rather than taint the database, taint the content. 2. That wasn't my intention. I was suggesting that there are likely other reasons governments are interested in this technology than, "think of the children". Hence, why I think we should seek to ways to render these algorithms ineffective were they deployed. But yes, please feel free to downvote if you feel my comment is unproductive. On reflection I agree it might be. I'm not really adding much here 3. You know what's annoying? I did that because I didn't to make an assertion either way to be as neutral as possible. I'm using quotes because others deem it racist, and that it's irrelevant what my personal position on that is. If you want my position on whether racism exists though, obviously I believe it does – I'd urge you to just assume good faith in the future.
- Traubenfuchs 3y agoI consider anyone promoting client side scanning of my media promoting a form of non-consensual violence against me.
- kypro 3y agoHuh? I'm not promoting it? I do think there may be a time and a place for them though... On school and work devices, for example. That's just my weakly held opinion though. Isn't an opinion I would seek to "promote", just one I wouldn't object to it.
- astrange 3y ago> Seems all need to here is obtain a finger print of a CSAM image then you can reverse engineer a non CSAM image to match that finger print. Distribute this image wide enough and you effectively render these algorithms useless. You can't do this without committing an illegal act (downloading CSAM) and it also wouldn't work (because there's a second server side hash), so no I don't think you should do this.
- huggingmouth 3y agoNo, all he would need as the hash which his device would have access to (client side scanning)
- astrange 3y agoYou can design the system so the client doesn't have a list of hashes either, eg with a Bloom filter or other probabilistic system you can change.